From: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org (faxlist-digest) To: faxlist-digest@monkey.org Subject: faxlist-digest V2001 #51 Reply-To: faxlist@2350.org Sender: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Errors-To: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Precedence: bulk faxlist-digest Thursday, April 5 2001 Volume 2001 : Number 051 (fax) gouging (fax) instant -reply (fax) return on investment RE: (fax) return on investment FW: (fax) return on investment RE: (fax) return on investment RE: (fax) return on investment Re: (fax) return on investment (fax) Return on investment RE: (fax) Return on investment RE: (fax) Return on investment (fax) Returning to genre Re: FW: (fax) return on investment RE: (fax) return on investment RE: (fax) return on investment (fax) Trades RE: FW: (fax) return on investment (fax) Re: (amb) Fax Recommendations ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 14:22:32 +0100 From: Rowland Atkinson Subject: (fax) gouging this is a dangerous thread, look at all the coverage already! Lets not get things out of proportion, if you can find rarities still its pretty amazing and Joerg is only charging 30 quid for those that he does have. Maybe we should also find out what he does have before we all go screaming blue murder. For my part i dont give a toss, I find it hard to think of Namlook being arsed to decide to hold back a few copies to make a couple of hundred quid (maybe). Im sure he would rather just clear the full 200 each time it is released. On the death of the sub-label...dont get me started! cheers rA NP: Birmingham Freq - get this before it goes out of print! :) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 09:07:42 -0500 (CDT) From: Phonaut Subject: (fax) instant -reply > > Speaking of the sublabel, wasn't there supposed to be an "Electro > > Harmonix II"? I remember asking CUE about this, and he said that Inoue & > > Sharp too this to another label. Was it ever released? > I'm pretty sure this was released as "Instant Replay", but I can't > remember what record label...Noah, is that correct? here's the info i have on it: April 18, 1997 Harvest/EMI-Electrola gmbh. 7243 8 55033 2 0 Germany a great disc, reminds me a little of Flowerhead sometimes. Would have been a nice Fax release! n. . . . . . . ..... . . . . . . Tetsu Inoue Homepage v2: http://music.hyperreal.org/artists/tetsu/ Radioshow Playlists: http://i.am/phonaut / http://www.phonaut.org/ ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 10:18:33 -0400 From: "Bennett, Michael" Subject: (fax) return on investment All, It has always bothered me that artists can release something (Ambiant Otaku, for example) that probably sold slowly after release (did it?) and later, it becomes a highly desirable CD. (This is a lottery-like aspect of the music business.) The artist never sees anything of the post-release purchase activity, too bad for him. It's just tough for artists to realize (earn) the value of their work. When that value increases over time, they (of all people) ought to benefit. I would feel better if the company DID hold some back for eventual sale at the newer, inflated prices. But in reality, the sale of even a dozen $100 CDs is not enough to live on. Last I heard, even ambient superstar vidna Obmana can't live on his CD sales. I'm sure that most of the FAX artists have a dayjob to make ends meet. BTW - my favorite writer, Gene Wolfe, said that he liked having a dayjob because that freed him to see the work to completion, and not be concerned that the rent was due. I saw a record my friend made 30 years ago for sale for over $100 but it's still for sale and he isn't waiting for any payback from that record. Why I put this here, I don't know. I just know that art and economics intersect in strange ways, mostly due to the fact that economy satisfies our physical needs and art satisfies our ... needs. Mike Work: 216-921-6900, x16501 mbennett@officemax.com Home: 330-866-5024 mikeben@cannet.com - -----Original Message----- From: Rowland Atkinson [mailto:r.atkinson@socsci.gla.ac.uk] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 9:23 AM To: faxlist@2350.org Subject: (fax) gouging this is a dangerous thread, look at all the coverage already! Lets not get things out of proportion, if you can find rarities still its pretty amazing and Joerg is only charging 30 quid for those that he does have. Maybe we should also find out what he does have before we all go screaming blue murder. For my part i dont give a toss, I find it hard to think of Namlook being arsed to decide to hold back a few copies to make a couple of hundred quid (maybe). Im sure he would rather just clear the full 200 each time it is released. On the death of the sub-label...dont get me started! cheers rA NP: Birmingham Freq - get this before it goes out of print! :) - --- + To post: ; to mail a person: + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to + Online info at: www.faxlabel.com www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 10:34:14 -0400 From: "Luckabaugh, Steve" Subject: RE: (fax) return on investment > I just know that art and economics intersect > in strange ways, i think that sums it up pretty good. that's just the way of art. especially with items that are limited edition. think of all the artists (painters and such) that never made a dime on their paintings and now they're going for millions and millions. think of all the limited edition collectable crap that's out there that people buy and sell. the producers of the products usually only make that initial sale price and don't get the benefit of the crazy collectors inflated prices but also think of this, the artists and the record label and such DO profit in the long run. think of how many people out there have the entire FAX catalog or close to it. the collectible nature of Fax drives people to buy a lot of cds (ALL the cd) they may not otherwise have bought. the "collectors" of Fax are being manipulated by the collectible nature of the label. wow that was deep. :-) so you see, everyone benefits in the end, except that poor slob who wasn't there all along and is the johnny come lately who is NOW trying to get all the fax titles and paying huge sums of money. steve. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 15:42:41 +0100 From: "Paul Milligan" Subject: FW: (fax) return on investment >The artist never sees anything of the post-release purchase >activity, too bad for him. It's just tough for artists to >realize (earn) the value of their work. When that value >increases over time, they (of all people) ought to benefit. Over here in UK-land there was a TV programme last week about all the kids (adults now!) who starred in The Sound Of Music. Right, get all the sarcastic comments out of the way so I can carry on!............... Anyway, they all got paid peanuts (couldn't even afford to eat in hotels while on location) and they've seen zilcho since. Yet the proceeds bankrolled 20th Century Fox for 10 years and they're still coining it in with tv rights, video, dvd, cd, etc tea, a drink with jam and bread. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:28:13 -0400 From: "Luckabaugh, Steve" Subject: RE: (fax) return on investment > Over here in UK-land there was a TV programme last week about > all the kids (adults now!) who starred in The Sound Of Music. > Right, get all the sarcastic comments out of the way so I can > carry on!............... > Anyway, they all got paid peanuts (couldn't even afford to eat > in hotels while on location) and they've seen zilcho since. Yet > the proceeds bankrolled 20th Century Fox for 10 years and they're > still coining it in with tv rights, video, dvd, cd, etc yeah and what did they say about the girl that played dorothy in the wizard of oz got like $16,000 or something for her work in that film. but then again when you're talking about movies and actors and contracts and such, that's a little different but i see your point. steve. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 11:28:25 -0400 From: "Bennett, Michael" Subject: RE: (fax) return on investment Great example! My wife loves that movie and I saw that the actress (Chairmian Carr)who played the oldest daughter (Liesl) has a biography out that looked interesting. Another classic is Yvonne Elliman sang Mary Magdalene in Jesus Christ Superstar and was offered either union scale ($15/hr or something like that) or a percentage of the take. Needless to say, it hit big and she could've gotten thousands for her work. - -----Original Message----- From: Paul Milligan [mailto:paulmilligan@btconnect.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 10:41 AM Over here in UK-land there was a TV programme last week about all the kids (adults now!) who starred in The Sound Of Music. Right, get all the sarcastic comments out of the way so I can carry on!............... Anyway, they all got paid peanuts (couldn't even afford to eat in hotels while on location) and they've seen zilcho since. Yet the proceeds bankrolled 20th Century Fox for 10 years and they're still coining it in with tv rights, video, dvd, cd, etc tea, a drink with jam and bread. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 16:43:49 +0100 From: "Paul Milligan" Subject: Re: (fax) return on investment >Another classic is Yvonne Elliman sang Mary Magdalene in Jesus Christ >Superstar and was offered either union scale ($15/hr or something like that) >or a percentage of the take. Didn't she earn some decent lucra doing both session and live work with Eric Clapton's band for quite a few years? Was that after or before JCS then? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:15:13 +0100 From: Edward Jones Subject: (fax) Return on investment Sound of Music? Jesus Christ Superstar? ERIC CLAPTON? Bloody hell! We've come along way from Fanger & Siebert, Peter Benisch et al..... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:25:43 -0400 From: "Bennett, Michael" Subject: RE: (fax) Return on investment And I, for one, am thankful... - -----Original Message----- Bloody hell! We've come along way from Fanger & Siebert, Peter Benisch et al..... ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:26:42 -0400 From: "Luckabaugh, Steve" Subject: RE: (fax) Return on investment > Sound of Music? Jesus Christ Superstar? ERIC CLAPTON? and the wizard of oz :-) steve. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 17:15:02 +0100 From: "Paul Milligan" Subject: (fax) Returning to genre >We've come along way from Fanger & Siebert, Peter Benisch et al..... Not quite back to Traben-Trarbach yet but, moving in that direction, has anyone heard Aeonian Glow by Vir Unis? It has that same calming effect on me that I get from Shades Of Orion 2... very atmospheric and nicely understated. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 23:59:12 +0000 From: Agust A J Subject: Re: FW: (fax) return on investment (oops. missent in first go to paul only, sorry :) hi people :) I've been lurking on the list for a couple of weeks or so, new to the list, but no stranger to lurking on lists (been lurking on ceremony for at least 5 years ;) see a few names here I've seen before (hiya rowland!) decided to say at least hi so far... :) I have gotten 16 fax releases so far, and am wishing for more... out of curiousity, since I havn't read the archives yet, has anyone used emusic's mp3 service to hear older fax output? I actually ended up subscribing to it... (my poor phonebill, I want flat rates now :P I figure it at least beats not hearing them at all... and it has made me want some of the cds all the more :] At 15:42 4.4.2001 +0100, Paul wrote: >Over here in UK-land there was a TV programme last week about >all the kids (adults now!) who starred in The Sound Of Music. >Right, get all the sarcastic comments out of the way so I can >carry on!............... >Anyway, they all got paid peanuts (couldn't even afford to eat >in hotels while on location) and they've seen zilcho since. Yet >the proceeds bankrolled 20th Century Fox for 10 years and they're >still coining it in with tv rights, video, dvd, cd, etc funnily enough, I was reading some article in a local mag about the SoM kids too. all sounded more or less bitter towards 20CF due to the lousy contract they got, part of which included being forced to promote the film for FREE :p how crappy is that? - --- Agust "Nemesis1" - aaj@centrum.is - ICQ: 1290264 - http://nem1.cjb.net free your :) [tm] ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 19:58:14 -0700 From: "Raphael Almeria" Subject: RE: (fax) return on investment >The artist never sees anything of the post-release purchase >activity, too bad for him. It's just tough for artists to realize (earn) >the value of their work. When that value increases over time, they (of all >people) ought to benefit. It sounds like it can be pretty terrible to be an artist esp. at the outset because they probably try to take advantage of you. I recently read that the record companies secretly passed a bill in congress that gave them rights to hold copyright on music without having to sell the rights back to the musician. I am not versed at all in this but it sounds like many contracts in the music business go about with the artist signing away their rights as a work for hire and they have the option to buy back their copyright after 30 years or so but the legislation that Congress passed would make it so that the record companies wouldn't have to do that. Really slimy. A lot of artists balked at this and I think they were lobbying Congress to reverse that. >Last I heard, even ambient superstar vidna Obmana can't live on his CD sales. I'm >sure that most of the FAX artists have a dayjob to make ends meet. BTW - my favorite >writer, Gene Wolfe, said that he liked having a dayjob because that freed him to see >the work to completion, and not be concerned that the rent was due. That's too bad. I've often wondered about some of these artists who are really big in these "underground" genres like ambient. Some of these have their own websites like Michael Stearns has www.michaelstearns.com and Robert Rich has www.amoeba.com - -R ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 20:06:01 -0700 From: "Raphael Almeria" Subject: RE: (fax) return on investment >their own websites like Michael Stearns has www.michaelstearns.com and >Robert Rich has www.amoeba.com Whoops, I got Rich's page a little wrong. It's more like this http://www.amoeba.com/rrframeset.html the main page is home page to both him and Rick Davies. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 10:33:21 +0100 From: "Paul Milligan" Subject: (fax) Trades *Amp - Namlook + Dandy Jack *Dark/Moog 8 (Live) - Namlook + Schulze *Artificial Intelligence - Hawtin + Black Dog + Speedy J. etc *Rendezvous In Outer Space - LSG (trance classic from Oliver Lieb) Wants: KLF - Chill Out Reeves - Otras 2 Unis - The Drift Inside Carl Stone/Em:t Rapoon - Easterly.. (or) Fires Of.. Bark Psy - Hex Datacide 2 Rather Int. titles (period up to RI040) ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 08:43:20 -0400 From: "Bennett, Michael" Subject: RE: FW: (fax) return on investment - -----Original Message----- ...part of which included being forced to promote the film for FREE :p how crappy is that? - -------------------------- Crappy, yes - unusual, no. The entertainment business eats its artists, performers and contributors... Check out Discipline Global Mobile's philosophy on this off-topic topic... Mike Bennett Work: 216-921-6900, x16501 mbennett@officemax.com Home: 330-866-5024 mikeben@cannet.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:54:36 -0500 From: Subject: (fax) Re: (amb) Fax Recommendations <> some of these are up on the fax real audio page at www.aquaFM.com/fax later, george ------------------------------ End of faxlist-digest V2001 #51 ******************************* --- + To post: ; to mail a person: + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to + Online info at: www.faxlabel.com www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org