From: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org (faxlist-digest) To: faxlist-digest@monkey.org Subject: faxlist-digest V2002 #28 Reply-To: faxlist@2350.org Sender: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Errors-To: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Precedence: bulk faxlist-digest Thursday, February 7 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 028 (fax) Rerelease old stuff! RE: (fax) Rerelease old stuff! Re: (fax) Rerelease old stuff! RE: (fax) Rerelease old stuff! (fax) more 10 year anniv comments (fax) Fax Fan Base Re: (fax) Fax Fan Base Re: (fax) Fax Fan Base RE: (fax) Fax Fan Base Re: (fax) Rerelease old stuff! (fax) Distributors RE: (fax) Fax Fan Base (fax) 10 Year Anniversary "by special invitation" RE: (fax) FAX << X >> Re: (fax) Distributors Re: (fax) 10 Year Anniversary "by special invitation" Re: (fax) 10 Year Anniversary "by special invitation" ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 15:33:52 -0600 From: "Jonathan Osborne" Subject: (fax) Rerelease old stuff! > What PK can do is a slow release of all the old classics say 1000 per title > or something and call 'em the classics collection as an on going > Re-release... for those of us whom missed out the first time. "PK, i'll > buy 'em!!!" I think this is a good idea too. Rerelease the originals in their original form. Oh, how that would piss off the collectors! :) There are probably 15-20 discs I would actually buy if they were available (mostly sublabel stuff). But I know that'll never happen because they probably wouldn't sell. Oh well, what the hell? Jonathan ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:52:50 -0500 From: "Maximilien Lincourt" Subject: RE: (fax) Rerelease old stuff! The problem with re-releases is that most of us have a scattered catalog items, I don't think that there's a huge demand for early releases, at most a pressing of 100/200 CD's per title would be enough for hard-core collectors and completists! BTW, does FAX really sell 2000 CD's of the newer release ? Is there a fax fan base beside us on the list ? - --- Maximilien Lincourt Max At Toon Boom Dot Com Codito Ergo Sum > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-faxlist@2350.org [mailto:owner-faxlist@2350.org]On Behalf Of > Jonathan Osborne > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 4:34 PM > To: faxlist@2350.org > Subject: (fax) Rerelease old stuff! > > > > What PK can do is a slow release of all the old classics say 1000 per > title > > or something and call 'em the classics collection as an on going > > Re-release... for those of us whom missed out the first time. > "PK, i'll > > buy 'em!!!" > > I think this is a good idea too. Rerelease the originals in > their original > form. Oh, how that would piss off the collectors! :) There are probably > 15-20 discs I would actually buy if they were available (mostly sublabel > stuff). > > But I know that'll never happen because they probably wouldn't sell. Oh > well, what the hell? > > > Jonathan > > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:12:09 -0000 From: "Rich" Subject: Re: (fax) Rerelease old stuff! - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maximilien Lincourt" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 9:52 PM Subject: RE: (fax) Rerelease old stuff! > > The problem with re-releases is that most of us have a scattered catalog > items, I don't think that there's a huge demand for early releases, at most > a pressing of 100/200 CD's per title would be enough for hard-core > collectors and completists! > > BTW, does FAX really sell 2000 CD's of the newer release ? Is there a fax > fan base beside us on the list ? I was a fan of FAX way before I joined the list, let alone know of it's existence.... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 14:27:11 -0800 (PST) From: Greg Hill Subject: RE: (fax) Rerelease old stuff! I have always wondered about how many copies Namlook usually sells per cd..I assume for every release he sells at least 1000, is this correct? I know MOST EM type of music sells under 500 copies per cd. Does anybody know? - --- Maximilien Lincourt wrote: > > The problem with re-releases is that most of us have > a scattered catalog > items, I don't think that there's a huge demand for > early releases, at most > a pressing of 100/200 CD's per title would be > enough for hard-core > collectors and completists! > > BTW, does FAX really sell 2000 CD's of the newer > release ? Is there a fax > fan base beside us on the list ? > > > > --- > Maximilien Lincourt > Max At Toon Boom Dot Com > Codito Ergo Sum > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-faxlist@2350.org > [mailto:owner-faxlist@2350.org]On Behalf Of > > Jonathan Osborne > > Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 4:34 PM > > To: faxlist@2350.org > > Subject: (fax) Rerelease old stuff! > > > > > > > What PK can do is a slow release of all the old > classics say 1000 per > > title > > > or something and call 'em the classics > collection as an on going > > > Re-release... for those of us whom missed out > the first time. > > "PK, i'll > > > buy 'em!!!" > > > > I think this is a good idea too. Rerelease the > originals in > > their original > > form. Oh, how that would piss off the collectors! > :) There are probably > > 15-20 discs I would actually buy if they were > available (mostly sublabel > > stuff). > > > > But I know that'll never happen because they > probably wouldn't sell. Oh > > well, what the hell? > > > > > > Jonathan > > > > --- > > + To post: ; to mail a person: > > > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > > > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax > www.2350.org > > > > > > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings! http://greetings.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:36:12 -0600 (CST) From: Phonaut Subject: (fax) more 10 year anniv comments > BTW, does FAX really sell 2000 CD's of the newer release ? Is there a fax > fan base beside us on the list ? I think "most" of the fans *aren't* on this list, actually. But all the serious online fans are here (or should be) ;-) As for selling all 2,000 copies, most of the newer releases are still available, so not all 2,000 are gone (obviously). But who knows maybe in another 2 years Possible Gardens & Wired will be hard to find? I bet they will. I see a post every now and then about Fax titles 'going out of print'. I hope it's understood that nearly every Fax CD is 'out of print' the day they are manufactured. It's not like they make a batch of 300 and then wait and then press up more later. no, they do it all at once and then they are done and are effectively Out Of Print although they may not be hard to find 2 months after release. Some titles go back IN print (in a matter of speaking) when reissued on AW. So it really makes no sense to say a certain Fax CD has now 'gone out of print' cause that's true from day one of all Fax CDs except those that get reissued on AW. The only measure we have of how well recent titles in general are selling is how hard a given title is to find for us. Finally, i kind of don't like the idea of reissuing old titles. Not because i care about original editions as opposed to reissues and all that stuff (sometimes, but they all sound the same right?) but because it seems to reward newbies only while offering nothing new to those of us been around for years spending our money collecting fax titles, listening to and reviewing them, posting about them, making webpages dedicated to them etc. it's great to see new folks coming in and getting interested/hooked on Fax, but i don't think the 10 Year Anni should cater to only them. For the long term fan, it's hardly 'something special' to get the same CD with new cover art as this is about new music not new graphics. In fact it would probably sell poorly and disappoint Namlook just like the 2350 Broadway thing years ago. Just because some people weren't around and 'missed out' the first few years doesn't mean Namlook should reissue older titles so they are once again obtainable for 14US$. He already does this with AW right?! Nor does it mean it will sell. The Perceived Need for a reissue of 2350 Broadway was HUGE if you were around when it was decided it would happen. But then there it was and not too many flew off the shelves. No, searching out and finally finding that Sealed Original Ambiant Otaku or Sequential is part of the fun! I just got my own original Sequential this year, so it's not like the rarities are utterly impossible to get. You just need to look harder and be patient and you will eventually find them. n/p . . . . . . ..... . . . . . . Official Tetsu Inoue Homepage, RadioShow Playlists, and Trades @: http://ww1.math.luc.edu/~njurcin or http://phonaut.cjb.net/ (chat) ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 10:34:11 +1100 From: "andre@sansserif.com.au" Subject: (fax) Fax Fan Base >> BTW, does FAX really sell 2000 CD's of the newer release ? Is there a fax >> fan base beside us on the list ? This is a point I've been trying to make for some time, thhis list makes up only a small percent (around 10%) of the Fan base, the fundamentalists if you will! and thats what makes it so hard for namlook to satisfy us completely, the other non-hardcore fans and run his business... I was quite surprised to see copies of Jet Chamber 5 + possible in the new releases shelf at the 'World Of Music' chains in both Berlin and Munich in 2000... I dont know how much Fax is sitting idley record stores in the US and other countries (none in Australia) How many listmembers are completists?? or howmany of you use the list for the reviews and opinions it generates to make your decisions.. ? If every listmember bought every release, without fail, that would only be 100-150 (? at last count) out of 2000 cheers! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:33:01 -0600 From: Subject: Re: (fax) Fax Fan Base <> Tower records in chicago on clark has about 20 titles in stock, along with anywhere up to 20 atom heart RI releases later, george ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:34:52 -0600 From: Subject: Re: (fax) Fax Fan Base > after New ORganic Life, i have stopped being a completist :-) later, george ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 17:12:58 -0700 From: "Craig D." Subject: RE: (fax) Fax Fan Base I've definitely been using the reviews as a method of deciding what to buy. I've had EMusic to decide which CDs I want to buy. Yes, I've actually been buying the titles that I already have from EMusic, so my poor ears wont suffer the 128bit sound. :) I've also seen a lot of titles available from Ear-Rational and EBay that are not on EMusic that I would like to get information on. Actually, it's been quite fun seeing what I can buy and then going to the reviews to see what people have to say about it. I've picked up quite a few great CDs thanks to 2350.org (Fanger & Siebert mmm). Craig - -----Original Message----- From: owner-faxlist@2350.org [mailto:owner-faxlist@2350.org]On Behalf Of andre@sansserif.com.au Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 4:34 PM To: +49-69/450464 Subject: (fax) Fax Fan Base How many listmembers are completists?? or howmany of you use the list for the reviews and opinions it generates to make your decisions.. ? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:30:45 -0800 From: "sanvara" Subject: Re: (fax) Rerelease old stuff! > BTW, does FAX really sell 2000 CD's of the newer release ? Is there a fax > fan base beside us on the list ? I'm sure the 2000 pressings must sell eventually. They must be selling because some of the pressings are up to 3000 now. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 17:58:23 -0700 From: Dave Wade-Stein Subject: (fax) Distributors This is Dave from EAR/Rational Music, posting from my personal account. Anyone have any suggestions for distributors to carry Fax/RI CDs? I just suspended relations with Revolver because they take too long to pay and are generally a pain to deal with. Help us help Fax's distribution! Thanks, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 23:24:23 -0800 From: "Raphael Almeria" Subject: RE: (fax) Fax Fan Base >This is a point I've been trying to make for some time, thhis list makes up >only a small percent (around 10%) of the Fan base, the fundamentalists if >you will! I don't know about you but I am not a FAX fundamentalist! :) Raphael ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 12:14:56 +0000 From: "Paul Milligan" Subject: (fax) 10 Year Anniversary "by special invitation" Hi folks - following are extracts from a recent exchange between Peter Kuhlmann and myself - I've picked out only the relevant bits as PK didn't actually say whether it was okay for me to post this to the List but, I'm thinking he won't mind !!!!! It should help to settle the matter of what we can expect in the Summer and certainly give everyone here something "special" to look forward to : > Peter.../there has been a great deal of discussion over the > past few days.../but, ideas need to be commercially realistic > .../Fax is not just your passion, it's your living too. PK : sooo right.. > .../I was wondering what you think about a "special" CD release > including booklet.../say 24 pages.../such as would only increase > your cost by a sensible amount. PK : has been done in the past on fax and.. is right too.. > .../amongst other things, plenty of photographs from the 10 > years and an essay by your good self. PK : yes .. I thought about that.. > .../regarding the music & including tracks which have only > appeared on vinyl.../I suspect this is probably a limited source > for you. PK : exactly > .../what about a 2CD set including *new* music from different > musicians with whom you have collaborated over recent years > .../example Laswell, Moufang, Prochir, Spyra, Gensen, Bird. PK : Is in the making.. 3 tracks are ready to go.. > .../it would be even more exciting if you could also include > collaboration with artists, from earlier years.../such as Atom, > Inoue, Hawtin, Sharp ... artists who are still active. PK : It is their decision as well and we have to find the time.. we collaborate anyway from time to time.. so there will be not a problem with this > .../this 2CD set would be "by special invitation".../demand would > be in excess of that for a normal release.../assuring artistic & > commercial success, whilst fulfilling the wishes of many fans. PK : this is what I had in mind and it is the cumulation of positive aspects .. it will be released in summer 2002. > What do you think Peter? PK : thank you, Paul.. this will happen. yours Peter ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:24:29 -0800 From: Anthony Ballo Subject: RE: (fax) FAX << X >> - -----Original Message----- From: andre@sansserif.com.au [mailto:andre@sansserif.com.au] Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 4:16 PM To: Fax List Subject: (fax) FAX << X >> a DVD however is probably the closest idea to reality.. but i wonder if any video footage of the live shows exist.. or any other for that matter.. There was that rumoured 'bootleg' video of Namlook X... "-) Seriously, Andre makes several good points. A DVD would be about the best we could hope for. Maybe a dual-format CD (data and audio) would be more realistic? - Anthony ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 13:25:37 -0700 From: David Wade-Stein Subject: Re: (fax) Distributors [By the way, I continue to post from my personal address not to confuse anyone, but because I'm subscribed to the Fax list from this address, and I refer to receive this kind of email at my personal address...] Paul Milligan agreed to let me forward this personal email he sent me. I think it's useful to clarify what goes on with Fax distribution. > >Hi Dave > >With me being UK based and you Stateside we've only done "business" >on a couple of occasions, I think. However, I'm sorry to hear of your >problem with Revolver but, could you please clarify as I thought *you* >were a distributor? I'm confused ... if Revolver pay you, that sounds >like you distribute and they retail. Excuse my ignorance here. > >Paul > Some of you are probably aware that EAR/Rational Music the North American distributor for Fax and RI. As a distributor, we sell to stores, both brick & mortar stores, and e-tailers such as Rioux's, Playing by Ear, Baba Luba, and others (I'm not touting any stores over others, those are just ones that came to mind). Those folks then sell to folks like those of you on the list. However, we also occasionally sell to other distributors, who wholesale the CDs to lots of stores. The reason for this is that many stores (including EAR/Rational in its retail form) prefer to deal with a few well-chosen distributors, rather than dealing with lots of labels and individuals. These stores don't have the time or personnel to effectively deal with lots of smaller labels and such, so they seek out distributors who can meet their needs. So if I can get more distributors to pick up our product, then potentially the CDs reach a wider audience and make it into stores who might not otherwise carry Fax/RI (they certainly don't want to deal with us directly for a few CDs here and there, so it's easier if they can get some Fax CDs along with whatever else they get from that distributor). Remember that as some of you pointed out in the recent 10 year anniversary discussion, there are only about 200 (?) or so folks on this list. And yet sales for each release are way more than 200. Which means that some folks who are buying Fax CDs are not on this list. And while many of you on this list buy your Fax CDs from an online source, many of the sales to folks who aren't on this list are in-person sales from stores. That's why it's useful to try to get distributors to carry our product. Finally, we also sell retail, at a higher price that wholesale, of course. Our retail sales for a given CD only amount to perhaps 50 (sometime as much as 100 after a while) copies out of the 2000/3000 pressed, but because CUE did it that way, we're following suit. There is really no conflict if we sell retail and wholesale, as long as the pricing is set up so that the stores we sell to can still make a profit on their sales. So, in addition to distributors, if you know of a store or online retailer who doesn't carry Fax but should, send 'em our way. Thanks, Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 20:36:24 -0000 From: "Adrian Jenkinson" Subject: Re: (fax) 10 Year Anniversary "by special invitation" PK don't say much does he...? i've met Sven Vath on lots of occasions he's very chatty. Anyway, a small number re-releases would be very nice please.... Paul... how much fax titles do you have mate? it just seams to me all the classic titles have but dried up!!! i've 15 fax titles living approx 1500 Cds and few thou Vinyl... i need more ambient! Ade. - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Milligan" To: Sent: 06 February 2002 12:14 Subject: (fax) 10 Year Anniversary "by special invitation" > Hi folks - following are extracts from a recent exchange > between Peter Kuhlmann and myself - I've picked out only the > relevant bits as PK didn't actually say whether it was okay for > me to post this to the List but, I'm thinking he won't mind !!!!! > It should help to settle the matter of what we can expect in the > Summer and certainly give everyone here something "special" > to look forward to : > > > > Peter.../there has been a great deal of discussion over the > > past few days.../but, ideas need to be commercially realistic > > .../Fax is not just your passion, it's your living too. > > PK : sooo right.. > > > .../I was wondering what you think about a "special" CD release > > including booklet.../say 24 pages.../such as would only increase > > your cost by a sensible amount. > > PK : has been done in the past on fax and.. is right too.. > > > .../amongst other things, plenty of photographs from the 10 > > years and an essay by your good self. > > PK : yes .. I thought about that.. > > > .../regarding the music & including tracks which have only > > appeared on vinyl.../I suspect this is probably a limited source > > for you. > > PK : exactly > > > .../what about a 2CD set including *new* music from different > > musicians with whom you have collaborated over recent years > > .../example Laswell, Moufang, Prochir, Spyra, Gensen, Bird. > > PK : Is in the making.. 3 tracks are ready to go.. > > > .../it would be even more exciting if you could also include > > collaboration with artists, from earlier years.../such as Atom, > > Inoue, Hawtin, Sharp ... artists who are still active. > > PK : It is their decision as well and we have to find the time.. > we collaborate anyway from time to time.. so there will be not > a problem with this > > > .../this 2CD set would be "by special invitation".../demand would > > be in excess of that for a normal release.../assuring artistic & > > commercial success, whilst fulfilling the wishes of many fans. > > PK : this is what I had in mind and it is the cumulation of positive > aspects .. it will be released in summer 2002. > > > What do you think Peter? > > PK : thank you, Paul.. this will happen. > yours > Peter > > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 12:19:38 +0000 From: "Paul Milligan" Subject: Re: (fax) 10 Year Anniversary "by special invitation" Adrian wrote: >PK don't say much does he...? Nope but, what he *does* say is significant don't you think? You feel classic titles have dried up (and I don't disagree) yet here's the possibility of something which could easily prove to be a classic ... a range of new music from PK in collaboration with some of Fax's leading luminaries, past and present, holds great potential. To requote Pete's own words... "thank you Paul, this will happen" ***** HEY NOAH - TIP OFF TETSU AND SEE IF HE'S INTERESTED (maybe a bit of mediation on his behalf?) ***** >Paul... how much fax titles do you have mate? I think I currently own about 80 but, approx 125 have passed through my hands over the years. P ------------------------------ End of faxlist-digest V2002 #28 ******************************* --- + To post: ; to mail a person: + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to + Online info at: www.faxlabel.com www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org