From: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org (faxlist-digest) To: faxlist-digest@monkey.org Subject: faxlist-digest V2002 #94 Reply-To: faxlist@2350.org Sender: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Errors-To: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Precedence: bulk faxlist-digest Thursday, June 6 2002 Volume 2002 : Number 094 Re: (fax) Opinions on DSOTM #IX (fax) (fax-related) Atom Heart and Dandy Jack live in Montreal last week-end ... Re: (fax) (fax-related) Atom Heart and Dandy Jack live in Montreal last week-end ... Re: (fax) "UFO Detection System" Re: (fax) Opinions on DSOTM #IX (fax) The 80's (fax) moogs, categories and more (fax) Re: The 80's Re: (fax) Opinions on DSOTM #IX (fax) Opinions ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 05 Jun 2002 17:36:31 +0100 From: "Paul Milligan" Subject: Re: (fax) Opinions on DSOTM #IX >> For me, the 80's were to a great extent, the superficial years. I *knew* this would be the comment to trigger... >in a sense, though, wasn't the superficiality just as important? >a) it brought electronic music to the masses so? >b) and as a related point, more people started making electronic music few of note imo. (It's the old quality/quantity argument) >c) a bit of superficiality was good in a genre that had taken itself >quite seriously up until that point. so? >personally, i haven't heard a lot of development in the 90's. at least in >pure electronic music, i.e. music done with synthesised tones. the sampler >and the computer are the only things that've really pushed electronic >music forward in the 90's. Does this mean you think that the Fax back catalogue doesn't show any notable developments in the 'sound' of electronic music? >a lot of 90's electronic music (daresay, all ambient) seems to be going back >to the 70's for inspiration. This I agree with. And those who do it rather well (the aforementioned DSOTM IX and Spyra's Future Of The Past being excellent examples) have imo 'built' on the 70's groundwork, thereby taking it to the next level. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:06:55 -0400 From: "Maximilien Lincourt" Subject: (fax) (fax-related) Atom Heart and Dandy Jack live in Montreal last week-end ... One of the first fax-head, Atom Heart, was in Montreal for the Mutek festival, last sunday, as part of his "Geez 'N' Gosh" very limited tour ... I'm not one of his fan of his later work, but his show was great, mostly dance-floor oriented glitch and breaks ... quite fun ... albeit not a good showman ... Dandy Jack, the latin bomb, from the Amp series, XJack and "Silent Music", he rocked the place, with mostly techno beats with a latin touch ... he was in montreal under the name "SIEG ÜBER DIE SONNE", which i didn't know about ... and they finished the show with a jam session with Atom Heart, Dandy Jack and Riccardo Villalobos .... Heat Pounding Beats and Lots of Fun ... ( unofficial pictures taken by a friend ... ) The Show : http://www.endorphine.com/mutek0602/mutek0602.htm The After Show ( I wasn't there ... :-( ) http://www.endorphine.com/mutek0603/mutek0603.htm Not quite the fax that we're used too ... Anyway, if Mutek's Alain Mongeau was able to bring them both to Montreal, on the same night, maybe they can try to extract Pete Namlook out of germany for a couple of days .... - ---- Maximilien Lincourt max at toon boom dot com Codito ergo sum ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:33:26 -0500 (CDT) From: Phonaut Subject: Re: (fax) (fax-related) Atom Heart and Dandy Jack live in Montreal last week-end ... > Dandy Jack, the latin bomb, from the Amp series, XJack and "Silent Music"= , > he rocked the place, with mostly techno beats with a latin touch ... he w= as > in montreal under the name "SIEG =DCBER DIE SONNE", which i didn't know a= bout =09SUDS has 3 albums out. "(-) * (-) =3D (+)" the latest album was =09recently released a few months ago on Multicolor Records. The =09album before that, my personal favorite, is "1-infinite" out =09on Sony Germany along with its accompanying remix EP, "1-infinite =09remixe EP" which has a fantastic remix by Atom Heart on it. =09The 3rd album i believe is self-titled, the one with the dancer =09on the cover (as on Dandy's shirt on the cover of his "Cosmic =09Trousers" album). There is also an EP for that 1st album. =09Villalobos have released a few 12" records together as Ric Y =09Marten, and all these folks, along with some other Chileans, can =09be found on the superb Payola compilation on RUTA-5. Nicely =09executed tech-house music with good melodic sense, very chipper! =09I don't suppose anyone has heard the related Luciano release =09called "La Capricciosa" out on BRUCHSTUCKE? Supposedly also =09Dandy Jack... =09Wish i could have made it to Mutek, sounds like i missed the =09concert of the century! I had to settle for Bola live in Chicago =09that evening, a real mindblower in itself. ;-) n/p =09np- Retro Rocket . . . . . . ..... . . . . . . =09Official Tetsu Inoue Homepage, Radio Playlists, and Tradelists @: =09http://ww1.math.luc.edu/~njurcin ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:49:03 -0400 From: "Mike Carss" Subject: Re: (fax) "UFO Detection System" Listening to that track loud on good headphones can be a serious mindf*ck. The constant phase shifts between both channels make my eyes cross. hehe :P - -Mike - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Caspar Ström" To: Sent: June 5, 2002 8:02 AM Subject: (fax) "UFO Detection System" > Sorry if this has been up before, but I think this is the funniest track > ever on FAx. The > long irritating sounds together with the stupid title makes me laugh every > time. If > it was intended to be anything else than a joke I don't get it. > > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 20:10:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Hill Subject: Re: (fax) Opinions on DSOTM #IX Paul, I'm not going to get into a big intellectual debate and argue with you back in forth but I totally disagree..We are from different era's I believe..I'm only 32(I believe we are not close to being in the same age category, and that explains everything) and Electro is my music of choice, if you do not care for that style and you like the 70s sequencing ,that's cool, good for you.. - --- Paul Milligan wrote: > >> For me, the 80's were to a great extent, the > superficial years. > > I *knew* this would be the comment to trigger... > > > > >in a sense, though, wasn't the superficiality just > as important? > >a) it brought electronic music to the masses > > so? > > >b) and as a related point, more people started > making electronic music > > few of note imo. (It's the old quality/quantity > argument) > > >c) a bit of superficiality was good in a genre that > had taken itself > >quite seriously up until that point. > > so? > > >personally, i haven't heard a lot of development in > the 90's. at least in > >pure electronic music, i.e. music done with > synthesised tones. the sampler > >and the computer are the only things that've really > pushed electronic > >music forward in the 90's. > > Does this mean you think that the Fax back catalogue > doesn't show any > notable developments in the 'sound' of electronic > music? > > >a lot of 90's electronic music (daresay, all > ambient) seems to be going back > >to the 70's for inspiration. > > This I agree with. And those who do it rather well > (the aforementioned > DSOTM IX and Spyra's Future Of The Past being > excellent examples) have > imo 'built' on the 70's groundwork, thereby taking > it to the next level. > > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 10:06:31 +0100 From: "Paul Milligan" Subject: (fax) The 80's Greg wrote: >Paul, I'm not going to get into a big intellectual >debate and argue with you back in forth but I totally >disagree. I'd have been more than happy to hear a rationale argument against my opinion - isn't that partly what the List is about? (I'm assuming we don't just restrict ourselves to Fax but, open up to relevant issues too.) >We are from different era's I believe.I'm >only 32 (I believe we are not close to being in the >same age category, and that explains everything) Well I'm 41 so don't pension me off just yet! >Electro is my music of choice, if you do not care for >that style and you like the 70s sequencing ,that's cool I've never conciously thought about being into (or not into) a particular era/style, in fact I'm generally set against categorisation within music as it usually does'nt serve any purpose. I generally just tell friends I enjoy "electronic music". Incidently, I think approx 75% of synth/sequencer music artists (categorisation!!!!!) is actually pretty crap. Much of the stuff I dig from the 90's is anything but conventional synth - eg. Koner, Gas, Biosphere + 90% of Fax artists. I'd be (genuinely) interested to know what you'd describe as the essence of 'Electro' ... in other words, why it appeals to you emotionally (as opposed to a technical definition). Just one other thought ... I'd hate anyone here to think that DSOTM IX isn't for them because they're not into traditional sequencer (or Berlin School or whatever!!!!!!!) as it's far more eclectic ... see what I mean about categorisation! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 13:52:54 +0200 From: "Richard Hughes" Subject: (fax) moogs, categories and more I have to agree with Paul on 2 points: 1/ Categoristation = waste of time , as far as I am concerned there is good music and there is bad music (and quite a lot of mediocre music). Why do we need to spend hours arguing whether it is electro, sequenced, non sequenced, "Intelligent", Dumb or otherwise... 2/ DSOTM IX is actually pretty good (my opinion of course). I've never been a massive fan of the "Moogs" I only had vols 1 thru 5 until now and from what I've read i'm sure I can probably live without 6, 7 and possibly 8. But having heard this one I was suitably impressed. So there.. - -----Original Message----- From: Paul Milligan [mailto:paulmilligan@georgiadesign.com] Sent: 06 June 2002 11:07 To: Greg Hill Cc: faxlist@2350.org Subject: (fax) The 80's Greg wrote: >Paul, I'm not going to get into a big intellectual >debate and argue with you back in forth but I totally >disagree. I'd have been more than happy to hear a rationale argument against my opinion - isn't that partly what the List is about? (I'm assuming we don't just restrict ourselves to Fax but, open up to relevant issues too.) >We are from different era's I believe.I'm >only 32 (I believe we are not close to being in the >same age category, and that explains everything) Well I'm 41 so don't pension me off just yet! >Electro is my music of choice, if you do not care for >that style and you like the 70s sequencing ,that's cool I've never conciously thought about being into (or not into) a particular era/style, in fact I'm generally set against categorisation within music as it usually does'nt serve any purpose. I generally just tell friends I enjoy "electronic music". Incidently, I think approx 75% of synth/sequencer music artists (categorisation!!!!!) is actually pretty crap. Much of the stuff I dig from the 90's is anything but conventional synth - eg. Koner, Gas, Biosphere + 90% of Fax artists. I'd be (genuinely) interested to know what you'd describe as the essence of 'Electro' ... in other words, why it appeals to you emotionally (as opposed to a technical definition). Just one other thought ... I'd hate anyone here to think that DSOTM IX isn't for them because they're not into traditional sequencer (or Berlin School or whatever!!!!!!!) as it's far more eclectic ... see what I mean about categorisation! _________________________________________________________________ MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos: http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx - --- + To post: ; to mail a person: + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 08:35:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Greg Hill Subject: (fax) Re: The 80's Well, I guess I can try to explain why Electro appeals to me...first of all, its the first Synth music I ever really heard(back in 1985)..secondly its UNIQUE! it doesn't have the standard 4/4 beats(most of the time), and its the first style(Kraftwerk) to use vocoder's, and the synths used in a lot of songs are really some of the best I have ever heard(unlike most SHITTY Techno, DnB, IDM, etc..)...some of the groups that I'm into(and by the way I'm back collecting all this old school Electro).. Kraftwerk, Hashim, Dynamix 2, Jonzun Crew, DJ Matrix, Newcleus, Digtal Electronic Funk(DEF), The WOrld Class Wrecking Cru, Egyptian Lover, and these are just a few.. Has anyone heard of any of these guys, except for Kraftwerk of course??? a lot of 90's music was influenced by these groups...especially, Aphex Twin, Autechre, and I'm sure a bunch more. This music also has more of a "street" soulful(it is done by a vast majority of African American's) vibe because it contains rap lyrics in a decent ammount of the songs..which I also like...I don't like rap nowadays, but do like the old school Electro with rap mixed in..if you want to hear some famous old school check out the web site, www.electroempire.com...best site on the net for OLd and nu school electro. PS- Paul, we are from differnet era's..you are close to being 10 years older than me, not a huge difference , but again explains a lot..Electro, is from a Hip Hop type background(this music was used for Breaking, started in about 79-80), I used to be teased by white kids my age for listening to this type of music...now look at all the suburban white kids who like Hip Hop..very interesting. G - --- Paul Milligan wrote: > Greg wrote: > > >Paul, I'm not going to get into a big intellectual > >debate and argue with you back in forth but I > totally > >disagree. > > I'd have been more than happy to hear a rationale > argument > against my opinion - isn't that partly what the List > is about? > (I'm assuming we don't just restrict ourselves to > Fax but, > open up to relevant issues too.) > > >We are from different era's I believe.I'm > >only 32 (I believe we are not close to being in the > >same age category, and that explains everything) > > Well I'm 41 so don't pension me off just yet! > > >Electro is my music of choice, if you do not care > for > >that style and you like the 70s sequencing ,that's > cool > > I've never conciously thought about being into (or > not into) > a particular era/style, in fact I'm generally set > against > categorisation within music as it usually does'nt > serve any > purpose. I generally just tell friends I enjoy > "electronic > music". Incidently, I think approx 75% of > synth/sequencer > music artists (categorisation!!!!!) is actually > pretty crap. > Much of the stuff I dig from the 90's is anything > but > conventional synth - eg. Koner, Gas, Biosphere + 90% > of Fax > artists. > > I'd be (genuinely) interested to know what you'd > describe as > the essence of 'Electro' ... in other words, why it > appeals > to you emotionally (as opposed to a technical > definition). > > Just one other thought ... I'd hate anyone here to > think that > DSOTM IX isn't for them because they're not into > traditional > sequencer (or Berlin School or whatever!!!!!!!) as > it's far > more eclectic ... see what I mean about categorisation! __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 6 Jun 2002 11:42:00 -0400 (EDT) From: laerm Subject: Re: (fax) Opinions on DSOTM #IX On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Paul Milligan wrote: > >> For me, the 80's were to a great extent, the superficial years. > > I *knew* this would be the comment to trigger... you mean i fell into your trap? oh, how trite of me. ;) > >in a sense, though, wasn't the superficiality just as important? > >a) it brought electronic music to the masses > > so? > > >b) and as a related point, more people started making electronic music > > few of note imo. (It's the old quality/quantity argument) > > >c) a bit of superficiality was good in a genre that had taken itself > >quite seriously up until that point. > > so? well, okay, excellent defending there, paul. but seriously...don't take this the wrong way, but you seem to have an elitist attitude towards electronic music. i.e. it's only for the approved to listen to and make, don't let anyone near it because they won't understand it, etc... now, i have been known to go a bit elitist from time to time, so i'm not going to say that you're wrong to feel this way (even though i've not taken this particular stance), but the least you could do is attempt to justify your standpoint a bit more. ;) > Does this mean you think that the Fax back catalogue doesn't show any > notable developments in the 'sound' of electronic music? well, when you get down to it, no, not really. the only serieses i consider to have "advanced" the genre are jet chamber, air, and koolfang. (even if the releases were sometimes unsuccessful, the ideas for new ways of thinking are still there.) select one-off releases are i would put in there, too, such as _ambiant otaku_, if only because it's tough to say inoue didn't add something to the mix. it's a tough call leaving out outland and psychonavigation, but when you get down to it, they sure sound alike. anyways, a lot of fax seems drawn from earlier territory. when i think fax, i think of sustained arpeggiations; huge, thick, drifting pads; a great deal of space to the sound; and the occasional piece of abrupt quirkiness (i certainly don't think of tyrance ;) ). now, we all know fax has not been the innovator of any of these things. it's pretty much all tangerine dream and eno (and i don't even like t.dream!). i hate to tell you this, but what makes fax notable is they took ideas that had been largely ignored in music 15, 20 years earlier, tarted them up a bit, and made them a bit more commercially acceptable. of course commercial acceptance was not fax's goal, but they (he?) made the interesting ideas of minimalism, repetition, wallpaper music, etc available to a wider audience in an easier-to-digest form. that pretty much equals success. > This I agree with. And those who do it rather well (the aforementioned > DSOTM IX and Spyra's Future Of The Past being excellent examples) have > imo 'built' on the 70's groundwork, thereby taking it to the next level. i suppose...i'm one of those people who has a hard time seeing innovation as it happens, i tend to see things in terms of very subtle shifts and cycles. it often takes me a few years to look back and notice an innovator, and the only way i generally notice them then is by seeing what their contemporaries have done in the same period of time. if it takes their contemporaries to catch up, then the person in question was probably ahead of times, and an innovator. (of course it's not always as cut and dried as this, but you get the idea.) uwe schmidt is a true innovator, no doubt. laswell probably is, too, but more as an idea man, definitely not a musician. namlook...i think he is, too, but not in any real obvious ways. : sig : micah stupak international bright young kook laerm@soulfood.org : quote : soon i'll have the courage to leave my thoughts behind ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 06 Jun 2002 17:39:26 +0100 From: "Paul Milligan" Subject: (fax) Opinions Laerm said: >you seem to have an elitist attitude towards electronic music. i.e. it's >only for the approved to listen to and make, don't let anyone near it >because they won't understand No, you've misunderstood me. I meant that the broadening of appeal of electronic music in the 80's is not of particular consequence as the quality was not in proportion to the quantity - a massive generalisation I'll admit. >> Does this mean you think that the Fax back catalogue doesn't show any >> notable developments in the 'sound' of electronic music? >well, when you get down to it, no, not really. the only serieses i >consider to have "advanced" the genre are jet chamber, air, and koolfang. So, for example, you wouldn't include Sub Label releases by the likes of Atom Heart, Victor Sol, Modula Green, David Reeves, etc? >I hate to tell you this, but what makes Fax notable is they took ideas >that had been largely ignored in music 15, 20 years earlier, tarted them >up a bit, and made them a bit more commercially acceptable. Well that's a rather negative interpretation of a fact I wouldn't totally disagree with. However, my interpretation would be more along the lines of: Fax advanced the ideas. Don't forget Tangerine Dream were far more successful (commercially) in the 70's than Fax has ever been. >I suppose...i'm one of those people who has a hard time seeing innovation >as it happens, i tend to see things in terms of very subtle shifts and >cycles. it often takes me a few years to look back and notice an >innovator, and the only way i generally notice them then is by seeing what >their contemporaries have done in the same period of time. if it takes >their contemporaries to catch up, then the person in question was probably >ahead of times, and an innovator. (of course it's not always as cut and >dried as this, but you get the idea.) uwe schmidt is a true innovator, no >doubt. laswell probably is, too, but more as an idea man, definitely not a >musician. namlook...i think he is, too, but not in any real obvious ways. Can't argue with any of that. ------------------------------ End of faxlist-digest V2002 #94 ******************************* --- + To post: ; to mail a person: + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to + Online info at: www.faxlabel.com www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org