From: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org (faxlist-digest) To: faxlist-digest@monkey.org Subject: faxlist-digest V2003 #34 Reply-To: faxlist@2350.org Sender: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Errors-To: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Precedence: bulk faxlist-digest Wednesday, February 19 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 034 Re: (fax) Old Releases Re: (fax) Old Releases Re: (fax) Old Releases Re: (fax) Old Releases RE: (fax) Old Releases Re: (fax) Old Releases (fax) RE: Deleted titles to go Re: (fax) RE: Deleted titles to go (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation [none] Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation (fax) David, the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:23:16 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: (fax) Old Releases In a message dated 2/18/03 12:10:22 PM Central Standard Time, r.hughes.ecpamsbv@inter.nl.net writes: << It's just a sign of the times I suppose and we should accept the fact that as time passes the chance of buying anything but the latest titles through normal retail channels will become increasingly the norm.. >> yes...i agree..this is a sad prospect indeed....gone is the thrill of finding some treasure (that you've been drooling to hear) from your local record/cd shop or a decent online store....everything is ebay this ebay that..rare! OOP ! get it while you can, before the other guy does!....i saw Music To Films go for over $200.00 the other day...this is ridiculous...i used to work at a record store and we couldn't give that cd away a few years ago...most people who listened to it said it was cheesy (personally, it's one of my faves).....it's very discouraging that i will probably NEVER own a copy of The Putney or Jet Chamber 3 or Dark Side of the Moog 1 & 2 or Air 4 or ANY of the 2350 Broadways because i can't see paying hundreds of dollars...it's not about being cheap and it's not about placing a high value on the music within..it's simple about my own principles....it's not fair and it's not right that people who really love this music can't get it...while others who have money to throw around can have two and three copies sealed just for their own amusement and sense of accomplishment......and then eventually sell them for ridiculous prices on ebay.... sorry...i had to vent...i feel better now.. RL ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:50:36 -0800 From: "seeklektek" Subject: Re: (fax) Old Releases From: "Lxacoustics" > Hi, > i may have misunderstood a little but i'm still not sure why cue would > have copies of gamma and fires of ork left and not be selling them via > normal method but sitting on them? > cheers, > matt Here's your 'cue', and a clue, too: http://snurl.com/so3 Ouch: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2507348648 =seek= ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:06:17 -0800 From: "sanvara" Subject: Re: (fax) Old Releases >.it's very discouraging that i will probably NEVER own a copy of > The Putney or Jet Chamber 3 or Dark Side of the Moog 1 & 2 or Air 4 or ANY of > the 2350 Broadways because i can't see paying hundreds of dollars... I've found old Fax CD's in used bins of record stores for under $10. So there is hope. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:16:13 -0800 From: "seeklektek" Subject: Re: (fax) Old Releases From: "sanvara" > >.it's very discouraging that i will probably NEVER own a copy of > > The Putney or Jet Chamber 3 or Dark Side of the Moog 1 & 2 or Air 4 or ANY > of > > the 2350 Broadways because i can't see paying hundreds of dollars... > I've found old Fax CD's in used bins of record stores for under $10. So > there is hope. Ssssh. ;) =seek= ;) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:26:33 +0100 From: "wolf kemker" Subject: RE: (fax) Old Releases > I've found old Fax CD's in used bins of record stores for under $10. So > there is hope. hmm, but wasn't that like, 6 or 7 years ago?? saw only verrrry few ones cheap last year, which was before the mega hype. fax in the bargain bin now is rather a 'lottery win' than 'hope'... best find way back: can anybody outdo 5 copies of shades 1 for 10 deutschmarks each? ;-) ciao, wolf. - ----://----------------------------------------------------- mailto:wolf@kompaktkiste.de http://www.kompaktkiste.de http://www.kompaktkiste.de/shop - ----://----------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:48:38 -0000 From: "Lxacoustics" Subject: Re: (fax) Old Releases > Here's your 'cue', and a clue, too: > http://snurl.com/so3 > > Ouch: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2507348648 > hooray to namlook and c.u.e for showing the Greatness of human-kind.There goes another customer........... > =seek= > > > > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:53:09 -0000 From: "Lxacoustics" Subject: (fax) RE: Deleted titles to go From a message sent to jogy12345678 ebay member last night. >Hi , >are you able to get other fax titles that are deleted or no longer > available? > > > >thanks , Yes, you can wish, which title and we will set them at Ebay. So long Joerg www.cue-records.de ................. next mail: > >Hi, > > are you able to sell direct without auction ? > > No - -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- An: Joerg Strawe Datum: Mittwoch, 19. Februar 2003 13:51 Betreff: Re: Hi , fax titles and auctions > wish, which title and we will set them at Ebay ???????????????? well all i wish is namlook and cue a good day...............i used to think namlook was a cool and open minded muso.I now think he is also a money grabbing bastard and happy to linch his fans?or until someone puts me right ? he wouldn't be dealing with cue would he ? if he knew people who liked his music were having to pay so much for his music? or if he was selling cds for wholesale to cue and then cue was ripping off His (namlooks) music buyers or people who respect and buy his music?or maybe or isn't involved or profiting from this .If he knows about this and has made the decision or is involved in holding back copies and inflating prices then i see fax in a different light and think its really quite sad........no one seems to have any conscience , just the want to rip off or squeeze everything they can out of the next man.In the case of musicians doing this to Their buying /supporting cd collectors i think this stinks , and as i said , i cant believe namlook is happy for cue to do this? if namlook is then my statements are valid.If not i apologise............ and sorry for another negative mail..................i also wont be buying any more fax releases until i know that this is the work of a greedy distributer / trader and not the work of namlook aswell.I;m not happy to support fax if they are involved and i cant believe namlook would be happy to see people paying these prices?whats going on? cheers, matt ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:04:00 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: (fax) RE: Deleted titles to go In a message dated 2/19/03 8:53:34 AM Central Standard Time, lxacoustics@btopenworld.com writes: << sorry for another negative mail..................i also wont be buying any more fax releases until i know that this is the work of a greedy distributer / trader and not the work of namlook aswell.I;m not happy to support fax if they are involved and i cant believe namlook would be happy to see people paying these prices?whats going on? cheers, matt >> i have to say, i find myself feeling this way too...but hey, look at that bright side..cd burners are great AND there is a ton of other great ambient/electronic artists and labels out there who sell their cds at reasonable prices and deserve our support...check out the Touch/Ash International label as well as Mego, Car Park, City Centre Offices, Morr Music, Kitty-yo, Kompakt, Eskaton, Soleilmoon, World Serpent, Warp, Rephlex, Planet -Mu, LTM, Darla, Transmat, Metroplex, KMS, 430 West, Minus, Sub Rosa, Quatermass, etc. etc. etc. labels that are moving forward at least....and making an effort RL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:32:06 +0000 From: Paul Milligan Subject: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation Although somewhat heated, I think he's not too far off the mark and I'm pretty sure plenty of others here are going to be niffed about it too. (I'm also sure that the royal "we" is Joerg AND Pete.) So why are they doing it? For sure they've known for some time about what Fax titles are going for on eBay and my guess is they're maybe thinking "Why not get on the bandwagon? Why should traders make more out of Fax music than we do?". It's human nature after all. How often do we (the music buying public) idolise our musical heroes and expect them to be whiter than white? They're not though and more often than not, beyond their art, they are no less infallible than any of us. I learnt this hard fact-of-life from Schulze's own publisher (and one time manager) Klaus Mueller, several years ago, when he published an article in the KS Circle which consisted of the entire transcription of a long conversation we'd had at the time; the topic of which was my complaint about Schulze putting out his Contemporary Works Vol 1 as a 10 disc box set ... ie. fans having to pay out very serious money to get 12 hours of material (50% of which wasn't even solo Schulze!) or basically go without completely. There's been talk here in the past about how the Sub label nearly took Fax down - ie. because many titles took ages to sell and therefore, Fax had too much money tied up in stock for too long. Maybe that's true but it looks like perhaps things have come full circle now and they're paying off big time. Point of irony ... when David Reeves sent Pete a demo of new material a couple of years back, Pete's reply included a comment along the lines of "the days of easy money are long gone". The thing is, David wasn't actually the least bit interested in actually making any money, just in getting his music out there. When all is said and done, we have to accept that Fax is Pete's livlihood. Obviously neither he nor Joerg see anything wrong (morally) in what they're doing or they'd have been more discreet about their methods. Regarding... > In the case of musicians doing this to their buying/supporting cd collectors > I think this stinks ... it's a point well made yet, conversely, the majority of longtime Fax buyers have had their opportunity to buy the titles at normal prices. If you're new to Fax it's unfortunate but, at least the AW reissues enable you to get hold of many of the classics. > and sorry for another negative mail Don't apologise, it's a perfectly reasonable discussion topic ... imo. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:48:10 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation In a message dated 2/19/03 9:37:14 AM Central Standard Time, paulmilligan@georgiadesign.com writes: << When all is said and done, we have to accept that Fax is Pete's livlihood. Obviously neither he nor Joerg see anything wrong (morally) in what they're doing or they'd have been more discreet about their methods. >> i sincerly doubt that Mr. Pete Namlook is hurting for money...something tells me that he came from money in the first place..and judging by his studio and equipment i really doubt that he is having too much of a money problem now...any artist who can afford to put out cds left and right (especially in the early years of FAX) with no regard to commercial success is most likely well off in the money department... just my opinion RL RL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:56:56 +0000 From: Paul Milligan Subject: Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation > i sincerly doubt that Mr. Pete Namlook is hurting for money... > something tells me that he came from money in the first place I'm not as convinced as you. Can't remember where you'll find it but there's a long piece he wrote about how it all started and my recollection is of comments implying he was *very* nervous about financial outlay in the beginning (ie. about recovering his outlay) > ....and judging by his studio and equipment i really doubt that he > is having too much of a money problem now How do we know that he hasn't reinvested a lot of the money he has made into his equipment... and therefore, by implication, into Fax? ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:03:42 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation In a message dated 2/19/03 11:01:45 AM Central Standard Time, paulmilligan@georgiadesign.com writes: << > i sincerly doubt that Mr. Pete Namlook is hurting for money... > something tells me that he came from money in the first place I'm not as convinced as you. Can't remember where you'll find it but there's a long piece he wrote about how it all started and my recollection is of comments implying he was *very* nervous about financial outlay in the beginning (ie. about recovering his outlay) > ....and judging by his studio and equipment i really doubt that he > is having too much of a money problem now How do we know that he hasn't reinvested a lot of the money he has made into his equipment... and therefore, by implication, into Fax? >> ok, good point...i suppose that could be the case as well...but i just have a nagging suspicion... RL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:09:29 -0800 (PST) From: dj monolith Subject: Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation So, did this David Reeves album ever get released anywhere? Darcy ( dj monolith ) - --- Paul Milligan wrote: Point of irony ... when David > Reeves sent Pete a > demo of new material a couple of years back, Pete's > reply included a > comment along the lines of "the days of easy money > are long gone". > The thing is, David wasn't actually the least bit > interested in actually > making any money, just in getting his music out > there. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:09:54 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation In a message dated 2/19/03 9:37:14 AM Central Standard Time, paulmilligan@georgiadesign.com writes: << Point of irony ... when David Reeves sent Pete a demo of new material a couple of years back, Pete's reply included a comment along the lines of "the days of easy money are long gone". The thing is, David wasn't actually the least bit interested in actually making any money, just in getting his music out there. >> what does that mean exactly, "the days of easy money are long gone" ? did he mean that the label couldn't just throw any old piece of music out there anymore? RL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:23:44 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation In a message dated 2/19/03 9:37:14 AM Central Standard Time, paulmilligan@georgiadesign.com writes: << > In the case of musicians doing this to their buying/supporting cd collectors > I think this stinks ... it's a point well made yet, conversely, the majority of longtime Fax buyers have had their opportunity to buy the titles at normal prices. If you're new to Fax it's unfortunate but, at least the AW reissues enable you to get hold of many of the classics. >> yes...but for a lot of us, we like many other labels and artists ..and FAX, being such a prolific label at one time made it damn hard to keep up....so it's a catch 22..now that the label has slowed waaay down on it's release schedule, and we actually have time to try to catch up, we can't...because the prices are so outrageous.... and just how many AW reissues are easy to get anymore? i can't find the AW Dark Side of the Moog 1 or 2 for under $50... but besides that....to be perfectly honest, there are other labels doing far more interesting stuff now anyway....why fuss over stuff that sounds dated (some of it) ?...Fax, CUE, and ebay sellers can keep their Escape,Gorn, Deltraxx, 4 Voice, Syn, Limelight,Sequential,Houdini, Hearts of Space etc etc. i'm having much more fun exploring stuff from the Touch/Ash International and Mego labels....artists such as Fennesz, Philip Jeck, Phil Niblock, Coh, Coil, Cyclobe, Hazard, Mika Vainio, and Biosphere, Oren Ambarchi, Rafael Toral, Rehberg & Bauer, Pita, and Kevin Drumm just to name a few.Biosphere's best stuff has been for Touch by the way...if you haven't heard any of it, you are missing out.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:37:23 +0000 From: Paul Milligan Subject: Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation > what does that mean exactly, "the days of easy money are long gone" ? did he > mean that the label couldn't just throw any old piece of music out there > anymore? I believe he meant that DR couldn't expect Fax to automatically release his music and therefore, that he would automatically receive his 'cut'. This offended DR. There's always the possibility Pete didn't mean this I suppose (ie. with language problem) but there you go. I'd prefer not to comment further as it's in the past now. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:44:31 -0800 From: Christian von Ompteda Subject: [none] Brilliantly forgot to copy the list with my answer to Paul's mail (below). In any case, here's my $0.02. cheers, Christian. > From: subLight > Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:15:57 -0700 > To: Paul Milligan > Subject: Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation > > Paul, you raise some fair points, but for myself, as with Matt and a few > others, I still don't feel that this arrangement, while perhaps potentially > profitable to Namlook and certainly to CUE makes any sense to Faxheads. If > I'm to silently accept the fact that musicians are indeed only in it for > the money, perhaps I would be better suited to listening to the latest boy > band on a major label - but I choose to support an independent like Fax on > the basis of its original music and integrity as a label. Namlook has > proven, and even reinforced in his comments at the back of the Cookbook 2 > booklet, that he is disgusted with the money-grubbing antics of the major > labels. > > He also said that the day he needs to compromise is the day he shuts the > label down. So I guess that my question is: Why don't we put the question > to him? I'm guessing that the people on this list represent a serious > component of Fax listeners and the Fax buying public - so do we not have a > right to get the man's opinion for ourselves? > > There is also one other solution to taking Ebay pirates out of the loop, > though it potentially creates as many problems as it solves - If they > (Namlook/CUE) are concerned about traders making so much and missing out on > the ridiculously inflated frenzy (Rare, OOP, buy this before your head > falls off!), perhaps they should think about re-issuing some more of the > titles whether under the AW label or not - adjust the levers of supply and > demand, and more people can enjoy Fax releases without having to shell out > $200 US. I'd be happy with this arrangement, even if it just meant that > someone with a bit of avarice and ten sealed copied of Shades of Orion 1 > could no longer rail on about how important it was that I need to pay them > a reserve price the size of my mortgage for a bloody CD. At the end of the > day, that's all it is, a CD - not a slice of history or a direct link to > Namlook, it's a piece of plastic and aluminum with some very clever printed > graphics. The music is what counts, and not to be a jackass about it, but > one can get the music without buying the CD, though this treatment is > usually reserved for major labels that like to rip buyers and musicians off. > > In the end, we could all sit here and muse about this and grudgingly shell > out more money for new Fax releases - or like Matt vote with our feet and > leave the Fax circle, but before I make any sort of decision, I would like > to hear Pete's point of view. So, who knows Pete well enough or at least > communicates with him enough to pose this question and get an honest > answer. I think that if it's clear that the list wants to know, I would > hope he would be willing to provide an answer. > > I've always enjoyed Namlook/Fax's music, and I don't think that this > situation will change my enjoyment of the music - but it will change my > attitude about supporting the label if indeed it is just the bare-knuckled > cash grab that it appears to be. In the end, I certainly want to understand > Pete's perspective - and if he doesn't support CUE's decision, I want to > know what he's going to do about it. > > cheers, > Christian. > > At 03:32 PM 2/19/2003 +0000, you wrote: >> Although somewhat heated, I think he's not too far off the mark >> and I'm pretty sure plenty of others here are going to be niffed >> about it too. (I'm also sure that the royal "we" is Joerg AND Pete.) >> So why are they doing it? For sure they've known for some time about >> what Fax titles are going for on eBay and my guess is they're maybe >> thinking "Why not get on the bandwagon? Why should traders make more >> out of Fax music than we do?". It's human nature after all. >> >> How often do we (the music buying public) idolise our musical heroes >> and expect them to be whiter than white? They're not though and more >> often than not, beyond their art, they are no less infallible than any >> of us. I learnt this hard fact-of-life from Schulze's own publisher >> (and one time manager) Klaus Mueller, several years ago, when he >> published an article in the KS Circle which consisted of the entire >> transcription of a long conversation we'd had at the time; the topic >> of which was my complaint about Schulze putting out his Contemporary >> Works Vol 1 as a 10 disc box set ... ie. fans having to pay out very >> serious money to get 12 hours of material (50% of which wasn't even >> solo Schulze!) or basically go without completely. >> >> There's been talk here in the past about how the Sub label nearly took >> Fax down - ie. because many titles took ages to sell and therefore, Fax >> had too much money tied up in stock for too long. Maybe that's true >> but it looks like perhaps things have come full circle now and they're >> paying off big time. Point of irony ... when David Reeves sent Pete a >> demo of new material a couple of years back, Pete's reply included a >> comment along the lines of "the days of easy money are long gone". >> The thing is, David wasn't actually the least bit interested in actually >> making any money, just in getting his music out there. >> >> When all is said and done, we have to accept that Fax is Pete's livlihood. >> Obviously neither he nor Joerg see anything wrong (morally) in what they're >> doing or they'd have been more discreet about their methods. Regarding... >> >>> In the case of musicians doing this to their buying/supporting cd >> collectors >>> I think this stinks >> >> ... it's a point well made yet, conversely, the majority of longtime Fax >> buyers have had their opportunity to buy the titles at normal prices. If >> you're new to Fax it's unfortunate but, at least the AW reissues enable >> you to get hold of many of the classics. >> >>> and sorry for another negative mail >> >> Don't apologise, it's a perfectly reasonable discussion topic ... imo. >> >> Paul >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- >> + To post: ; to mail a person: >> + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to >> + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:41:46 +0000 From: Paul Milligan Subject: Re: (fax) Matt's comments regarding cue/ebay situation > So, did this David Reeves album ever get released > anywhere? Nope. I have a copy and, as far as I'm aware,the only other people with one are Pete and Andre. Don't ask me to send you one; I'd need David's permission and he's unfortunately gone to ground. It's quite a lot different to his other 3 releases ... Pete & Andre (and,to a lesser extent, me too) didn't feel it was as strong. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:44:21 -0800 (PST) From: ambient Subject: (fax) David, the answer is NO. - --- dj monolith wrote: > So, did this David Reeves album ever get released > anywhere? > > Darcy ( dj monolith ) > > Nope. I have a copy and, as far as I'm aware,the only > other people with one are Pete and Andre. You can include me. I did have this 'demo' and it is certainly NOT Fax material. I can't imagine that this ever has or would be released, point blank. As it likely went to other labels after Pete said NO, i am sure David got the idea....as more people than Pete and Andre have it. If i can remember correctly, it was close to 45 minutes. To me, it seemed to be a sample of the kind of music he was doing at that time and not really a finished full length. If this was the first thing that Pete had listened to from David, Pete would have never listened to the demos for Ostras or In Starless Space. I remember wondering what i would do with the CD demo. I felt guilty asking the sender if they wanted it back, yet later did by asking if they 'needed it back', ya know,...for promotional purposes... With the No answer i got back, I THINK that i tossed it in a s a freebie to someone that i traded some music with. It didnt warrant the shelfspace it was taking. ,scoUt NP: +N ex.s __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com ------------------------------ End of faxlist-digest V2003 #34 ******************************* --- + To post: ; to mail a person: + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to + Online info at: www.faxlabel.com www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org