From: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org (faxlist-digest) To: faxlist-digest@monkey.org Subject: faxlist-digest V2003 #38 Reply-To: faxlist@2350.org Sender: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Errors-To: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Precedence: bulk faxlist-digest Monday, February 24 2003 Volume 2003 : Number 038 Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD (fax) Jonah Sharp in Japan (fax) spyra f/t (fax) 2 spare fax cds for trade :) Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD RE: (fax) Jonah Sharp in Japan Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD RE: (fax) FAXMP3CD (fax) Silence MP3 CD (PS) Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 07:32:19 -0800 (PST) From: ambient Subject: Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD this is one of the best posts concerning mp3s - --- Lxacoustics wrote: > I think i would prefer spending my money on a bag of > doughnuts..( a large > one ).......no offence , mp3 even at hi rates is a > compremise based on the > idea that what you cant hear you can leave out? its like > convenience food , > quick to download and great to store.I'm not convinced by > it but i'm > obsessive about quality and interested in what cant be > heard aswell as what > can.Leave that out of compress out and you sometimes lose > the subtle energy > of the piece of music , but this is all based on my own > ideas surrounding > music being than a little more than just a listening > experience or a > marketable commodity.Great for demo's and for listening > to stuff be before > you buy it though amd is a great idea.I guess if you dont > think to hard > about it or get that deep into it all mp3 at even low > rates its fine but i'm > obsessive about magic and music and all this mp3 format > and cpmpression work > i dont think was ever motivated by the want to better > music but the want to > market or pirate or box it up even more.Maybe i am wrong > , i'm sure plenty > arnt sure about mp3 and theres a good reason why as it > will always be 'less > than ' the real thing , even at super hi rates.....the > ears may say , thats > clear and all fine but the heart tells me it was never > created with right > intent or devised as a means to make music more potent or > a better > experience but as i said for 'other ' reasons.Great for > the kids and > downloaders and i respect it for that.I guess i'm > sounding like a right > wingnut so i'll leave it there , i have a mate into hi fi > gear and valve > amps and stuff who grimaced when cd came out ! after > years of vinyl , mp3 i > think he thinks is a strain of computer virus or > something .Seems to be > something the music business want to cash in on or > control.Great for 5 hour > mixes , but it will always be a compremise and for 5 hour > mixes i think dvd > audio would be way better though dearer for fax to do or > for people to buy. > > cheers, > > matt __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 07:46:21 -0800 (PST) From: ambient Subject: (fax) Jonah Sharp in Japan Wednesday, February 26th http://www.bul-lets.com Thursday, February, 27th http://www.milk-tokyo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:34:20 +0100 From: "radio-active-toy" Subject: (fax) spyra f/t Available for trade: Spyra - Sferics In return I'm looking for: Silent Music But might be potentially interested in other cds as well, even non fax, so feel free to make an offer. Bye - -- Riccardo :: :: ::: :::::: :::::: ::: : :: :: :: .:::::: :: :: .. ::...:: .. :: . . . . . . . . . . . . . music_trade http://digilander.libero.it/radioactivetoy/ . . . . . . . . . . . . . ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:32:38 +0000 From: Agust A J Subject: (fax) 2 spare fax cds for trade :) hey:) I did it again... snooped around in that shop on it's last day before closing and bought a few cds. didn't realize untill I got home that I already bought virtual vices the last time I was there *doh!* so, now I got spare copies of: namlook+spyra: virtual vices (ps141) namlook+öcal: sultan-osman (pw39) looking for all kinds of goodies... any of dsotm 1-6 would be nice ^-^ my not fully up-to-date cdlist is at http://nem1.cjb.net/cds.html - --- Agust "nemesis1" - aaj@centrum.is - ICQ: 1290264 - http://nem1.cjb.net free your :) [tm] ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:38:46 -0800 From: "sanvara" Subject: Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD Do a blind test and play an orginal and a 256 kpbs mp3 encoded with LAME. Have a friend switch them back and forth 10 or 20 times. See if you can pick out the original each time. I think you'll be surprised by the results. I can't hear a difference. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:58:30 -0700 From: David Wade-Stein Subject: Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD On Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 12:38 PM, sanvara wrote: > Do a blind test and play an orginal and a 256 kpbs mp3 encoded with > LAME. > Have a friend switch them back and forth 10 or 20 times. See if you > can pick > out the original each time. I think you'll be surprised by the > results. I > can't hear a difference. > Hear, hear! *This* is the best post on MP3 I've seen. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of you cannot tell the difference. If you can, don't buy the MP3 CD. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:55:56 +0100 From: "msg_matucana" Subject: Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD Hello all, > > Do a blind test and play an orginal and a 256 kpbs mp3 encoded with > > I can't hear a difference. > > I'm willing to bet the vast majority of you cannot tell the difference. > If you can, don't buy the MP3 CD. I expect that to be a function of 1) the quality of replay equipment and 2) the experience of the listener. It should be fun to try at which bit rate the differences vanish. For that experiment, I consider a record like "Modula Green" best test object, for it has many intricacies. The more droney stuff seems likely to be drowned in reverberation (is that a pun? never mind). Hope that I find time to try it out soon. Hellmuth ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:56:41 +1100 From: "Sebastian Pucilowski" Subject: RE: (fax) Jonah Sharp in Japan One day I hope he swings by Australia :( Sebastian Pucilowski - -----Original Message----- From: owner-faxlist@2350.org [mailto:owner-faxlist@2350.org] On Behalf Of ambient Sent: Monday, 24 February 2003 2:46 AM To: faxlist@2350.org Subject: (fax) Jonah Sharp in Japan Wednesday, February 26th http://www.bul-lets.com Thursday, February, 27th http://www.milk-tokyo.com __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/ - --- + To post: ; to mail a person: + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax + www.2350.org ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 02:26:59 -0500 From: "jackthetab" Subject: Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD Fact is, you can hear a difference. However sometimes you may not really hear a difference, because some cd's are encoded rather shitty. Some cd's sound worse than mp3's (I listened to one today which was total shit). You should read a review on mp3's in last years issue of Stereophile (or was it Sound and Vision). Mp3's were rated poorly with the use of higher quality stereo equipment. I am not expert, but I think they are better equipt to answer that. I do not overly like mp3's but I have to say that encoding them to 256kbps over 128kbps is a vast improvement. It is more plausable to pay for something encoded to those specifications rather than the crappy 128kbps that everyone thinks is so great. I have mixed feelings in regards to the Silence series, and especially due to the price, but I will check it out and post my opinion. kunst und wahnsinn, jackthetab #####\ _ /##### #( )# | _( )__ | #( )# ##### | /_woof/ | ##### #" "# | ___m/I_ /_____ | #" "# # O # |____#-x.\ /++m\ /.x-#____| # O # #m.m# | /" \ ///###\\\ / "\ | #m.m# #####/ ######/ \###### \##### /_______________________________________\ - ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Wade-Stein" To: "fax list" Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 3:58 PM Subject: Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD > > On Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 12:38 PM, sanvara wrote: > > > Do a blind test and play an orginal and a 256 kpbs mp3 encoded with > > LAME. > > Have a friend switch them back and forth 10 or 20 times. See if you > > can pick > > out the original each time. I think you'll be surprised by the > > results. I > > can't hear a difference. > > > Hear, hear! > > *This* is the best post on MP3 I've seen. > > I'm willing to bet the vast majority of you cannot tell the difference. > If you can, don't buy the MP3 CD. > > Dave > > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:23:25 -0000 From: Richard Hughes Subject: RE: (fax) FAXMP3CD Well my copy of the Silence comp arrived this morning. I will bear these all these comments in mind and let you know if I can tell the difference or not between this MP3 version and the originals.. - -----Original Message----- From: jackthetab [mailto:ambient@nycap.rr.com] Sent: 24 February 2003 08:27 To: David Wade-Stein; fax list Subject: Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD *************************************************************************** The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. 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When addressed to our clients, any opinions or advice contained in this email are subject to the terms and conditions expressed in the governing client contract. **************************************************************************** ********************************************************************** This footnote confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** www.eclipsecomputing.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:32:39 -0000 From: Richard Hughes Subject: (fax) Silence MP3 CD (PS) PS: The booklet for this one is really nice, reproducing exactly inside all of the front and back plates (but not the liner notes inside) of the original 5 albums. For the record, the tracks are enocoded at slightly different bit rates as follows: Omid/Hope @ 320kbit Garden Of Dreams @ 259kbit Santur @ 320 kbit Trip @ 269kbit Life/Death @ 258 Heaven (aw-cut) @320 Faith @273 Sweet Angels @320 What is Time @256 Into The Desert @320 Mirage @320 Ship on Sea of Sand @261 Lost City @320 Stars @320 The Bottom of The Ocean @320 Dream Time @320 Circle of Life @258 Deep Inside @320 Bedouin Love @260 The Night Before I Left @320 Asbendos @320 While Angels Sleep @320 Master of the Sky @320 Ancient Beauty @320 Picnic @320 Heaven (orig.Version) @257 *************************************************************************** The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee and access to this email by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken, or omitted to be taken, in reliance on it is prohibited and may be unlawful. When addressed to our clients, any opinions or advice contained in this email are subject to the terms and conditions expressed in the governing client contract. **************************************************************************** ********************************************************************** This footnote confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. ********************************************************************** www.eclipsecomputing.com ********************************************************************** ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:53:23 -0800 From: "sanvara" Subject: Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD > Fact is, you can hear a difference. However sometimes you may not > really hear a difference, because some cd's are encoded rather shitty. > Some cd's sound worse than mp3's (I listened to one today which was > total shit). I agree, a badly mastered CD may sound worse than an MP3 of a CD that is well mastered. But isn't the issue an MP3 vs the _same_ CD not an MP3 vs a different CD that is mastered poorly? If the CD is mastered poorly then the MP3 and the CD will both sound bad. I honestly believe, and it has been my personal experience, that once you get to 256 kpbs and if you use Exact Audio Copy and LAME to encode with a variable bit rate you cannot hear a difference between the MP3 using the quality of stereo equipment that 99% of people use. I would bet the only way to hear a difference at 256 (assuming you do a error-free rip and use a quality program to encode) is to have a VERY high end sound system which few people have. A blind sound test is the only way to test it. If you know an MP3 is playing many people will hear a difference because it's psychological and people are predisposed to hear a difference. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:05:39 -0700 (MST) From: wallace winfrey Subject: Re: (fax) FAXMP3CD On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, sanvara wrote: > I honestly believe, and it has been my personal experience, that once you > get to 256 kpbs and if you use Exact Audio Copy and LAME to encode with a > variable bit rate you cannot hear a difference between the MP3 using the > quality of stereo equipment that 99% of people use. I would bet the only way > to hear a difference at 256 (assuming you do a error-free rip and use a > quality program to encode) is to have a VERY high end sound system which few > people have. A blind sound test is the only way to test it. If you know an > MP3 is playing many people will hear a difference because it's psychological > and people are predisposed to hear a difference. I do most of my listening using KRK V8 nearfield studio monitors. The sound reproduction is quite accurate, with no "coloring" as far as I (or publications such as Sound on Sound) can tell. I've ripped and encoded most of my FAX and RI collections using EAC and LAME at 192 kbps. I've done A<->B comparisons, and 99% of the time I cannot tell the difference. The 1% of the time I have been able to tell the difference has been to notice a very minor amount of aliasing on the most high-end frequencies. When I listen to MP3s encoded at 256-bitrate or above, I honestly cannot perceive any difference. The encoder has a lot to do with the resulting mp3 sound quality. LAME sounds better than Fraunhoffer, which sounds better than Xing (IMHO). cheers w ------------------------------ End of faxlist-digest V2003 #38 ******************************* --- + To post: ; to mail a person: + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to + Online info at: www.faxlabel.com www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org