From: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org (faxlist-digest) To: faxlist-digest@monkey.org Subject: faxlist-digest V2004 #48 Reply-To: faxlist@2350.org Sender: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Errors-To: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Precedence: bulk faxlist-digest Thursday, May 27 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 048 Re: (fax) Top 5 FAX? Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) (fax) wanted: Comp 4 Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) (fax) Shellground etc RE: (fax) Shellground etc Re: (fax) Shellground etc Re: (fax) Top 5 FAX? - shellground (fax) anyone want Octopus or Otras 2 ? Re: (fax) Shellground etc Re: (fax) Shellground etc Re: (fax) Shellground etc (fax) The Fax of Life... Re: (fax) The Fax of Life... Re: (fax) The Fax of Life... Re: (fax) Shellground etc Re: (fax) The Fax of Life... RE: (fax) Shellground etc Re: (fax) Shellground etc RE: (fax) Shellground etc Re: (fax) The Fax of Life... ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:03:32 -0700 From: "sanvara" Subject: Re: (fax) Top 5 FAX? > on 24/05/2004 3:19 pm, Graham Banting at gbanting@ualberta.ca wrote: > > 3 cheers for whoever it was who mentioned the two Aerial Service releases. > I'm not voting my five right now but, I have a question, is there anyone out > there who owns Shellground who wouldn't put it in their Top 5? I mean come > on guys (and gals?)... I like Shellground but it's nowhere near my top 5 Fax CD's. It might make my top 50 though. :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:56:19 -0700 From: "sanvara" Subject: Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) > i do not think i honestly could come up with a top 25 fax. > there is a lot of good albums on fax, but there are a lot > of crappy albums. Are you saying you can't make up a top 25 because you can't find 25 Fax albums you like? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 18:28:19 -0700 From: "Greg" Subject: Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) I'm saying I could barely come up with a top 10...there are a LOT of bad, boring ambient, and techno/trance albums on the fax label..BUT, there is a fair ammout of really good stuff....... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "sanvara" To: "FAX" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 1:56 PM Subject: Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) > > > i do not think i honestly could come up with a top 25 fax. > > there is a lot of good albums on fax, but there are a lot > > of crappy albums. > > Are you saying you can't make up a top 25 because you can't find 25 Fax > albums you like? > > > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:11:19 -0700 (PDT) From: John Whitney Subject: Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) - --- Greg wrote: > I'm saying I could barely come up with a top > 10...there are a LOT of bad, > boring ambient, and techno/trance albums on the fax > label..BUT, there is a > fair ammout of really good stuff....... heretic! ;-) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:30:55 -0700 From: "Greg" Subject: Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) John, didn't understand the comment?........... - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Whitney" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 7:11 PM Subject: Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) > --- Greg wrote: > > I'm saying I could barely come up with a top > > 10...there are a LOT of bad, > > boring ambient, and techno/trance albums on the fax > > label..BUT, there is a > > fair ammout of really good stuff....... > > heretic! ;-) > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:11:32 -0500 From: Trevor Cordes Subject: (fax) wanted: Comp 4 I keep missing it on ebay... argh! Anyone on the list have a NEAR MINT (CD and art!) copy of Comp 4 they want to sell? I'll offer $65 including shipping (cheap, I don't care about speed -- ie: $1.35 from the USA) to Canada. I may accept lower condition copies for a (much) lower price -- email me. FYI, here's the recent ebay sales to show my offer is decent: 4014065540 $65 4010075224 $50 4009808036 $77 4011700105 $64 4008527423 $51 Help me put the third to last FAX CD I need in my collection! ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:18:59 -0500 (CDT) From: Trevor Cordes Subject: Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) On 25 May, Greg wrote: > I'm saying I could barely come up with a top 10...there are a LOT of bad, > boring ambient, and techno/trance albums on the fax label..BUT, there is a > fair ammout of really good stuff....... That's a bit rough... there's lots of "ok, now what" releases (ala NOL, etc), but there's more than enough great releases -- at least 3/5 of the catalog has at least 2-4 tracks that are fantastic. Sure, most albums have their clinkers (last track on Ozoona anyone?), but that does not make them bad albums! The problem with coming up with a top 25 is ranking the albums relativel to eachother among the morass of average releases. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 00:43:17 -0400 From: "jackthetab" Subject: Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) that is what i am saying essentially. i do not think many fax releases are deemed to be good, but nothing that i would say is "a must have". i am sure i could come up with a top 10 or a top 15, but not much else. kunst und wahnsinn, jackthetab #####\ _ /##### #( )# | _( )__ | #( )# ##### | /_woof/ | ##### #" "# | ___m/I_ /_____ | #" "# # O # |____#-x.\ /++m\ /.x-#____| # O # #m.m# | /" \ ///###\\\ / "\ | #m.m# #####/ ######/ \###### \##### /_______________________________________\ die Intensität eines Automobilunfalles, ist einfach erstaunlich. http://jackthetab.org - ----- Original Message ----- From: "sanvara" To: "FAX" Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 2004 4:56 PM Subject: Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) > > > i do not think i honestly could come up with a top 25 fax. > > there is a lot of good albums on fax, but there are a lot > > of crappy albums. > > Are you saying you can't make up a top 25 because you can't find 25 Fax > albums you like? > > > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:35:48 -0700 From: "sanvara" Subject: Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) > that is what i am saying essentially. i do not think > many fax releases are deemed to be good, but nothing > that i would say is "a must have". > > i am sure i could come up with a top 10 or a top 15, > but not much else. 200 CD's released and you think only 10-15 are good and none of them are a "must have"? That's suprising. That means you like less than 10% of the labels output. I wouldn't expect that opinion from someone on a Fax mailing list. I would say there are at least 20 must have CD's and almost every CD has some good material on it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 02:54:21 -0400 From: "jackthetab" Subject: Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) well, do not take this the wrong way, as some people have. i have about 130 fax disc's, but have only managed to listen to 3/4 of those. i have about 30 or so releases that i have not listened to. these are the only releases (that i own or have listened to) that i would consider in a top 20 list. FAX - 62 Eulengasse - PW21 FAX - Alien Community 2 - PW14 FAX - Electro Harmonix - PS 08/51 FAX - Jochem Paap - Vrs-Mbnt-Pcs 9598 I - PS 08/94 FAX - Jochem Paap - Vrs-Mbnt-Pcs 9598 II - PS 08/96 FAX - Namlook III - PK 08/88 FAX - Namlook IV - PK 08/89 FAX - Oskar Sala - My Fascinating Instrument - PS 08/76 FAX - Season's Greetings - Autumn - SEA04 FAX - Silence I+II - (Instinct) FAX - Spyra - Etherlands - PS 08/93 FAX - Spyra - Invisible Fields - PS 08/98 FAX - Spyra - Sferics - PS 08/91 FAX - The Dark Side of the Moog IX - PK 08/163 FAX - The MS-Series - PS 08/70 FAX - The Putney - PK 08/76 FAX - Xangadix 2 - PS 08/73 FAX - XJacks - PS 08/59 do not get me wrong, there are many releases that i find good, just not great. at times i kind of get sick of namlooks recycling of samples and sounds, although with so much output, i guess it is to be expected. releases such as zenith, dreamfish, ozoona, and shades of orion are considered good releases, but not something i would consider "must have" releases. kunst und wahnsinn, jackthetab #####\ _ /##### #( )# | _( )__ | #( )# ##### | /_woof/ | ##### #" "# | ___m/I_ /_____ | #" "# # O # |____#-x.\ /++m\ /.x-#____| # O # #m.m# | /" \ ///###\\\ / "\ | #m.m# #####/ ######/ \###### \##### /_______________________________________\ die Intensität eines Automobilunfalles, ist einfach erstaunlich. http://jackthetab.org ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:58:41 -0700 From: Raphael Almeria Subject: Re: (fax) shellground - (was TOP 5 FAX) He's probably exaggerating a little but I'm sort of with him on this. I probably only have around 30 to 40 FAX CDs but I'm pretty selective. I don't go out and buy every FAX CD but I get the ones that are generally thought to be among the best. I do unfortunately have around ten FAX CDs that I think are garbage. Among them are most of the DSOM series (except for DSOM V and VI which I like), 2350 Broadway 2 and a few others which escape me at the moment. Raphael On May 25, 2004, at 11:35 PM, sanvara wrote: > >> that is what i am saying essentially. i do not think >> many fax releases are deemed to be good, but nothing >> that i would say is "a must have". >> >> i am sure i could come up with a top 10 or a top 15, >> but not much else. > > 200 CD's released and you think only 10-15 are good and none of them > are a > "must have"? That's suprising. That means you like less than 10% of the > labels output. I wouldn't expect that opinion from someone on a Fax > mailing > list. > > I would say there are at least 20 must have CD's and almost every CD > has > some good material on it. > > > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 09:52:07 +0100 From: Paul Milligan Subject: (fax) Shellground etc >>> is there anyone out there who owns >>> Shellground who wouldn't put it in their Top 5? >> yes, me > not even in the top 25 Hellmuth, Tim, you guys astound me. Have you considered having your ears syringed? Seriously, have you listened to this one more than a couple of times Tim because not top 25 seems bizarre, to me anyway. Statement of the obvious I suppose but, we all get different things out of the label... for instance some rave on 2350 vols I + II whereas I think they're just pretty boring, vol III being easily the best. Incidentally, any more opinion on latest releases from New Composers Move D and the PK/Paap one? Paul PS. Shameless plug ... I've a copy of Schulze's "Dosburg Online" up on eBay at a cracking price. You won't see this one coming up often and it was bloody expensive even when new/in-print! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 08:08:36 -0400 From: "Conlon, Timothy J *HS" Subject: RE: (fax) Shellground etc Rmlyc3QgdGltZSBJIGxpc3RlbiB0byBhIENELCBJIGdyYWRlIGVhY2ggc29uZzogMT1nb29kLCAy PWVoPywgMz1nYXJiYWdlIGFuZCAxKj1leGNlbGxlbnQgKGJ1cm4gb250byBhIHZhcmlvdXMgY3V0 cyBDRCkuDQogDQpJIGtlZXAgYSBzcHJlYWRzaGVldCB3aXRoIGFsbCB0aGUgc29uZ3MgdGhhdCBh cmUgIjEiIG9yICIxKiIuLi4ubG9va2luZyBhdCBTaGVsbGdyb3VuZCwgSSBoYXZlIGxpc3RlZCBz b25ncyAiMSwgNCwgNSIgIG5vdGhpbmcgc3RlbGxhci4gIEkgcHJvYmFibHkgaGF2ZSBub3QgbGlz dGVuZWQgdG8gaXQgc2luY2UuICBZb3UgbWF5IGJlIGNvcnJlY3QgaW4geW91ciBhc3Nlc3NtZW50 IGFuZCBJJ2xsIGdvIGJhY2sgYW5kIGdpdmUgaXQgYW5vdGhlciBsaXN0ZW4uICBCdXQgSSBoYXZl IGJlZW4gbGlzdGVuaW5nIGFuZCByYW5raW5nIG15IG11c2ljIHRoaXMgd2F5IGZvciAzNSB5ZWFy cyBhbmQgSSBoYXZlIGNvbWUgdG8gdHJ1c3QgbXkgZmlyc3QgaW5zdGluY3QuDQogDQpUaW0NCiAN CiANCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tIA0KRnJvbTogb3duZXItZmF4bGlzdEAyMzUw Lm9yZyBvbiBiZWhhbGYgb2YgUGF1bCBNaWxsaWdhbiANClNlbnQ6IFdlZCA1LzI2LzIwMDQgNDo1 MiBBTSANClRvOiBmYXhsaXN0QDIzNTAub3JnIA0KQ2M6IA0KU3ViamVjdDogKGZheCkgU2hlbGxn cm91bmQgZXRjDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KCT4+PiBpcyB0aGVyZSBhbnlvbmUgb3V0IHRoZXJlIHdobyBv d25zDQoJPj4+IFNoZWxsZ3JvdW5kIHdobyB3b3VsZG4ndCBwdXQgaXQgaW4gdGhlaXIgVG9wIDU/ DQoJDQoJPj4geWVzLCBtZQ0KCQ0KCT4gbm90IGV2ZW4gaW4gdGhlIHRvcCAyNQ0KCQ0KCQ0KCUhl bGxtdXRoLCBUaW0sDQoJDQoJeW91IGd1eXMgYXN0b3VuZCBtZS4gSGF2ZSB5b3UgY29uc2lkZXJl ZCBoYXZpbmcgeW91ciBlYXJzIHN5cmluZ2VkPw0KCVNlcmlvdXNseSwgaGF2ZSB5b3UgbGlzdGVu ZWQgdG8gdGhpcyBvbmUgbW9yZSB0aGFuIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIHRpbWVzDQoJVGltIGJlY2F1c2Ug bm90IHRvcCAyNSBzZWVtcyBiaXphcnJlLCB0byBtZSBhbnl3YXkuIFN0YXRlbWVudCBvZiB0aGUN CglvYnZpb3VzIEkgc3VwcG9zZSBidXQsIHdlIGFsbCBnZXQgZGlmZmVyZW50IHRoaW5ncyBvdXQg b2YgdGhlIGxhYmVsLi4uDQoJZm9yIGluc3RhbmNlIHNvbWUgcmF2ZSBvbiAyMzUwIHZvbHMgSSAr IElJIHdoZXJlYXMgSSB0aGluayB0aGV5J3JlDQoJanVzdCBwcmV0dHkgYm9yaW5nLCB2b2wgSUlJ IGJlaW5nIGVhc2lseSB0aGUgYmVzdC4NCgkNCglJbmNpZGVudGFsbHksIGFueSBtb3JlIG9waW5p b24gb24gbGF0ZXN0IHJlbGVhc2VzIGZyb20gTmV3IENvbXBvc2Vycw0KCU1vdmUgRCBhbmQgdGhl IFBLL1BhYXAgb25lPw0KCQ0KCQ0KCVBhdWwNCgkNCgkNCglQUy4gU2hhbWVsZXNzIHBsdWcgLi4u IEkndmUgYSBjb3B5IG9mIFNjaHVsemUncyAiRG9zYnVyZyBPbmxpbmUiIHVwIG9uDQoJZUJheSBh dCBhIGNyYWNraW5nIHByaWNlLiBZb3Ugd29uJ3Qgc2VlIHRoaXMgb25lIGNvbWluZyB1cCBvZnRl biBhbmQNCglpdCB3YXMgYmxvb2R5IGV4cGVuc2l2ZSBldmVuIHdoZW4gbmV3L2luLXByaW50IQ0K CQ0KCS0tLQ0KCSsgVG8gcG9zdDogPGZheGxpc3RAMjM1MC5vcmc+OyB0byBtYWlsIGEgcGVyc29u OiA8ZmF4bGlzdC1vd25lckAyMzUwLm9yZz4NCgkrIFRvIHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlOiAidW5zdWJzY3Jp YmUiIHRvIDxmYXhsaXN0LXJlcXVlc3RAMjM1MC5vcmc+DQoJKyBPbmxpbmUgaW5mbyBhdDogd3d3 Lmh5cGVycmVhbC5vcmcvZmF4ICB3d3cuMjM1MC5vcmcNCgkNCg0K ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:32:52 +0100 From: Paul Milligan Subject: Re: (fax) Shellground etc on 26/05/2004 1:08 pm, Conlon, Timothy J *HS at TJC@hscmail.mcc.virginia.edu wrote: > ...................... You may be correct in your assessment and I'll go > back and give it another listen. But I have been listening and ranking my > music this way for 35 years and I have come to trust my first instinct. I'd be interested to hear the outcome of your 2nd listening ... particularly as I recall the full realisation of Shellground's brilliance not hitting me until maybe the 3rd play. Incidentally, by selecting three Shellground tracks as '1' or '1*' (ie. your rating system) that's three fifth's of the album for starters. Am I missing something here? Paul by-the-way: long-standing list members will know that I periodically champion this release... for the benefit of the un-initiated of course! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 15:50:30 +0200 From: "Richard Hughes" Subject: Re: (fax) Top 5 FAX? - shellground > 3 cheers for whoever it was who mentioned the two Aerial Service = releases. > I'm not voting my five right now but, I have a question, is there = anyone out > there who owns Shellground who wouldn't put it in their Top 5? I mean = come > on guys (and gals?)... >=20 Shellground would probably make it into a top ten, but maybe not a top = five. It is undoubtedly one of the most original albums in the Fax = catalogue. I feel it's almost impossible for me to give a definitive top = 5 faxes , but there are a few which are very special and which I can = never imagine tiring of listening to and they are (in no particular = order):=20 Sequential Fires Of Ork Namlook IV Escape - The Futurescape Organic Cloud ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:07:07 EDT From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: (fax) anyone want Octopus or Otras 2 ? i have extra copies of the first Octopus cd as well as the Otras 2 cd....i'd be happy to work a trade/trades for any of the following: Namlook XII Namlook XIV - Solarized Time2 (namlook & Inoue) 2350 Broadway 2 2350 Broadway 3 Jet Chamber 3 Move D & Namlook I - Exploring the Psychedelic Landscape Move D & Namlook II - A Day in the Live! Outland 4 Season's Greetings - Spring Season's Greetings - Summer Season's Greetings - Winter Transonic 3 - Future Primitive if interested please contact me offlist: RLynn9@aol.com thanks, Robert ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 19:19:27 +0200 From: Alexander Subject: Re: (fax) Shellground etc Hello Paul, Wednesday, May 26, 2004, 2:32:52 PM, you wrote: > I recall the full realisation of Shellground's brilliance not hitting me > until maybe the 3rd play Can you describe that (the brilliance) further? Thank you... - -- Best regards, Alexander Glatum's Law of Materialistic Acquisitiveness: The perceived usefulness of an article is inversely proportional to its actual usefulness once bought and paid for. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 13:32:04 -0500 (CDT) From: Trevor Cordes Subject: Re: (fax) Shellground etc On 26 May, Conlon, Timothy J *HS wrote: > listen. But I have been listening and ranking my music this way for > 35 years and I have come to trust my first instinct. Bad idea with FAX... many releases are "growers" which you won't at first appreciate. It takes 2-4 listens to really hear the magic. I can't think of some immediately, except the recent Advanced Indigo, which I first thought was blah, but then really got into it. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 14:11:46 -0700 From: "sanvara" Subject: Re: (fax) Shellground etc > First time I listen to a CD, I grade each song: 1=good, 2=eh?, 3=garbage and 1*=excellent (burn onto a various cuts CD). > > I keep a spreadsheet with all the songs that are "1" or "1*"....looking at Shellground, I have listed songs "1, 4, 5" nothing stellar. I probably have not listened to it since. You >may be correct in your assessment and I'll go back and give it another listen. But I have been listening and ranking my music this way for 35 years and I have come to trust my >first instinct. I think you are really missing out if you listen to something once and make a decision to shelve it based on one play. So many albums take repeated listens to fully appreciate. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:58:56 +0000 From: "kevin renick" Subject: (fax) The Fax of Life... I'm enjoying reading everyone's comments about Fax releases, and it reminded me how much I wish there was sort of a "definitive guide" for Fax buying. I like Paul Milligan's list on 2350.org, and a few other people posted some ratings, but there isn't anything close to a detailed guide, and maybe that's impossible. I do know there are a number of releases I looked for info on recently, and found none. Some had no reviews on 2350.org at all, and some had one very inadequate review. I wish I had time to post reviews myself, but ironically, I earn part of my living actually writing reviews here in St. Louis, so doing a bunch more "in my spare time" isn't possible right now. What I WOULD like to say regarding the thread of bad Fax releases, or releases that are disappointing at first, is that first of all, context really matters. If I'm popping a CD into my stereo at home, with high expectations, it's possible to get disappointed or bored pretty quickly. On the other hand, if I'm listening on my car stereo, a disc sounds different (sometimes much BETTER), and listening through headphones sounds different than listening on my computer. Each experience affects my enjoyment of the music. Also, stuff that I put on as background music while I read or work, generally sounds pretty good, and may not be as apt to disappoint me as stuff I intend to closely pay attention to. Every listening experience is different, and I've certainly learned that Fax releases shouldn't be approached like "any other music." There's something special about Fax to me, and I've been enjoying a kind of magic feeling lately about many of the releases. I've acquired just over 60 Fax discs so far, and of those, there's only about 5 or 6 that I'm largely bored with. Those would include Fanger & Siebert, A Day in the Park, coupla of the DSM discs, and to be honest, I haven't been able to get into From Within yet. However, I like to challenge myself as a listener, and I'm not content to just dump discs after one or two unsatisfying listens. With these discs, I intend to just wait for a different occasion, and try them again. Change the context, and perhaps my reactions will change. If anyone has any thoughts about From Within, I'd love to hear them. For me, that's the best example of a Fax disc everyone raved about that I had high expectations for. And when I got it, three listens failed to impress me as much as most other Fax discs. I seem to be missing the boat on this one. Not quite as dramatically, but I also had high expectations for Waiting for Snow, and felt a little bit let down at first. A few more listens, however, have made it more appealing, and now I like it. On the other hand, there are quite a few Fax discs I LOVE that other people have sort of slagged, like Outland 2, Fires of Ork 2 and Shades of Orion 1 and 2. So clearly it's a very individual thing. The best Fax stuff has a kind of evolving beauty and wistfulness that really sticks with me. Sorry to ramble so much, but I'm just glad to see some discussion about this stuff after a pretty quiet period. I find myself thinking about Fax all the time, because I really think the good releases stand out in the crowd of ambient music. To put it mildly. Kevin _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee® Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 16:02:24 -0700 (PDT) From: John Whitney Subject: Re: (fax) The Fax of Life... I agree with Kevin about different situations giving different takes on a listen. Unfortunately I have about 3 places to listen to Fax CDs: in my apartment in Chicago with noisy traffic going by outside, on the El trains w/ headphones (with people talking on their cellphones in the background & the rattle of the train), or at work. Sometimes work during the day is kind of exasporating for listening to this stuff because I get constantly interrupted and have to be ready to rip off my headphones at any moment, but when I'm working O.T. on the 20th floor up there after 6:00 and no one else is around, that can be a cool, completely quiet environment to listen to Fax in. I imagine some of Fax's more kinetic-sounding tracks would go well with night driving, but I haven't been able to do much of that. John n.p. Morrissey - 'You are the Quarry' __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. http://messenger.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 01:19:43 -0400 From: "jackthetab" Subject: Re: (fax) The Fax of Life... i usually do not judge a cd as garbage by just listening to the album once. every cd i get deserves at least two listens before making any sort of decision (aside from writing reviews). normally if i do not like the disc the first time, i set it aside for at least two weeks (sometimes even months), before giving it another shot. i have had several cd's (not just fax) that needed several listens, or several years to actually get into (ie merzbow, air I+II, solitare, supergroup, the whole traffic, and several others). i certainly appreciate the "kevin renick's" words, as they do ring true. i was not impressed with the whole traffic until i was actually driving to it....certainly changed how i felt about the series, and not to mention actually sounded different than at home.... kunst und wahnsinn, jackthetab #####\ _ /##### #( )# | _( )__ | #( )# ##### | /_woof/ | ##### #" "# | ___m/I_ /_____ | #" "# # O # |____#-x.\ /++m\ /.x-#____| # O # #m.m# | /" \ ///###\\\ / "\ | #m.m# #####/ ######/ \###### \##### /_______________________________________\ die Intensität eines Automobilunfalles, ist einfach erstaunlich. http://jackthetab.org - ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Whitney" To: "kevin renick" ; Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2004 7:02 PM Subject: Re: (fax) The Fax of Life... > I agree with Kevin about different situations giving > different takes on a listen. Unfortunately I have > about 3 places to listen to Fax CDs: in my apartment > in Chicago with noisy traffic going by outside, on the > El trains w/ headphones (with people talking on their > cellphones in the background & the rattle of the > train), or at work. Sometimes work during the day is > kind of exasporating for listening to this stuff > because I get constantly interrupted and have to be > ready to rip off my headphones at any moment, but when > I'm working O.T. on the 20th floor up there after 6:00 > and no one else is around, that can be a cool, > completely quiet environment to listen to Fax in. I > imagine some of Fax's more kinetic-sounding tracks > would go well with night driving, but I haven't been > able to do much of that. > > John > > n.p. Morrissey - 'You are the Quarry' > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Friends. Fun. Try the all-new Yahoo! Messenger. > http://messenger.yahoo.com/ > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 10:45:59 +0100 From: Paul Milligan Subject: Re: (fax) Shellground etc >> I recall the full realisation of Shellground's brilliance not hitting me >> until maybe the 3rd play > Can you describe that (the brilliance) further? Well, paraphrasing from my own review on 2350: "a complex lovingly-crafted hypnotic masterpiece.. /.. eerie drones, strange melodies.. /.. other worldly ambience .." Visit 2350 for the full unedited version and a couple of other rather good reviews. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:04:55 +0100 From: Paul Milligan Subject: Re: (fax) The Fax of Life... Kudos to Kevin for taking the time to write an interesting piece; the list actually seems to be getting back on track ... ie. talking about Fax *music* again! A couple of points I'd pick-up on Kevin: My personal rating guide is technically on Roy's Fax Galleria site but, you can obviously go there via the link on 2350. I've been posting this annually for some years now but, didn't update at the beginning of 2004 because (I am somewhat ashamed to say) I only picked up two or three new releases in 2003 and I probably only re-rated half a dozen older releases ... due to my not playing a lot of Fax stuff last year. Coincidentally, for about the 4th time in eight years I think I'm moving into another 'refresh' period so, by the end of this year, I probably will be in a position to post a respectable update. Need to hear some of the latest ones! Interesting that you don't rate From Within. Possibly this gained almost mythical status in the 90's because it was one of those releases which appealed to Faxheads who'd previously been into 'Berlin School' stuff. Mind you, I'm not aware about that many people slagging off the original Shades of Orion? I think 90% of members would acknowledge this as one of Fax's 10 most legendary releases and rightly so imo. Shades II is also a stormer... the beginning always reminds me of an early morning mist rolling in off the sea. There's a tear in my eye! Bye. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 06:55:30 -0400 From: "Conlon, Timothy J *HS" Subject: RE: (fax) Shellground etc DQpJIHRoaW5rIHlvdSBhcmUgcmVhbGx5IG1pc3Npbmcgb3V0IGlmIHlvdSBsaXN0ZW4gdG8gc29t ZXRoaW5nIG9uY2UgYW5kIG1ha2UNCmEgZGVjaXNpb24gdG8gc2hlbHZlIGl0IGJhc2VkIG9uIG9u ZSBwbGF5LiBTbyBtYW55IGFsYnVtcyB0YWtlIHJlcGVhdGVkDQpsaXN0ZW5zIHRvIGZ1bGx5IGFw cHJlY2lhdGUuDQoNCiANClRoYXQgbWF5IHdlbGwgYmUgdHJ1ZS4uLmJ1dCB0aGVyZSBpcyBzbyBt dWNoIG11c2ljIG91dCB0aGVyZSB3YWl0aW5nIHRvIGJlIGhlYXJkLCBvbmUgbGlzdGVuIGlzIGVu b3VnaC4NCg0KLS0tDQorIFRvIHBvc3Q6IDxmYXhsaXN0QDIzNTAub3JnPjsgdG8gbWFpbCBhIHBl cnNvbjogPGZheGxpc3Qtb3duZXJAMjM1MC5vcmc+DQorIFRvIHVuc3Vic2NyaWJlOiAidW5zdWJz Y3JpYmUiIHRvIDxmYXhsaXN0LXJlcXVlc3RAMjM1MC5vcmc+DQorIE9ubGluZSBpbmZvIGF0OiB3 d3cuaHlwZXJyZWFsLm9yZy9mYXggIHd3dy4yMzUwLm9yZw0KDQo= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 12:25:21 +0100 From: Paul Milligan Subject: Re: (fax) Shellground etc on 27/05/2004 11:55 am, Conlon, Timothy wrote: >> I think you are really missing out if you listen to something >> once and make a decision to shelve it based on one play. So >> many albums take repeated listens to fully appreciate. > That may well be true...but there is so much music out there > waiting to be heard, one listen is enough. Although we are wandering off-topic again I find myself agreeing with Sanvara's comment, especially as your counter-argument just doesn't hold water imo Tim. Appreciate the quality before the quantity every time in my book. You have every right to exercise the 'one listen only' rule of course but, in the eyes of most here, I think you will undermine the credibility of your views on much of the Fax catalogue if this is the cursory approach you take. Like I said before, I didn't fully appreciate Shellground until third time around and I'm sure most others have similar experiences of certain Fax releases. Paul ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 07:49:56 -0400 From: "Conlon, Timothy J *HS" Subject: RE: (fax) Shellground etc VHJ1ZSBhZ2Fpbi4uLmJ1dCBJIG5ldmVyIHBvc3QgcmV2aWV3cyBvciBleHBlY3Qgb3RoZXJzIHRv IGFjY2VwdCBteSBvcGluaW9uLi4uc28gdGhlcmUgaXMgbGl0dGxlIGNyZWRpYmlsaXR5IHRvIHVu ZGVybWluZSAoSSBoYXZlIGJlZW4gbGlzdGVuaW5nIHRvIEZBWCBzaW5jZSAxOTk0IGFuZCBoYXZl IGJlZW4gYSBtZW1iZXIgb2YgdGhpcyBuZXdzIGdyb3VwIGZvciBhbG1vc3QgYXMgbG9uZy4gIER1 cmluZyB0aGF0IHRpbWUsIHlvdSB3b3VsZCBiZSBoYXJkIHByZXNzZWQgdG8gZmluZCBtb3JlIHRo YW4gYSBkb3plbiBvciBzbyBjb21tZW50cyBmcm9tIG1lKS4NCiANClRob3NlIG9mIHlvdSB0aGF0 IGxpc3RlbiB0byBGQVggdG8gYSBtdWNoIGdyZWF0ZXIgZXh0ZW50IHRoYW4gSSwgaGF2ZSB0aGUg Y3JlZGVudGlhbHMgdG8gYmFjayB1cCB5b3VyIHJldmlld3Mvb3BpbmlvbnMgYW5kIEkgZW5qb3kg cmVhZGluZyB0aGVtLiAgQnV0IEkndmUgYWxzbyBmb3VuZCB0aGF0IGEgMm5kIG9yIDNyZCByZXZp ZXcgb2YgYSBDRCByYXJlbHkgY2hhbmdlcyBteSBmaXJzdCBvcGluaW9uLiAgIA0KIA0KSSBhZ3Jl ZSBhYm91dCBxdWFudGl0eSB2cyBxdWFsaXR5LCBidXQgeW91IGRvbid0IGtub3cgd2hhdCBxdWFs aXR5IGlzIG91dCB0aGVyZSB1bmxlc3MgeW91ciB3aWxsaW5nIHRvIGxpc3Rlbi4NCiANClRpbQ0K IA0KIA0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0gDQpGcm9tOiBQYXVsIE1pbGxpZ2FuIFtt YWlsdG86cGF1bC5taWxsaWdhbkBnZW9yZ2lhZGVzaWduLmNvbV0gDQpTZW50OiBUaHUgNS8yNy8y MDA0IDc6MjUgQU0gDQpUbzogQ29ubG9uLCBUaW1vdGh5IEogKkhTIA0KQ2M6IGZheGxpc3RAMjM1 MC5vcmcgDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogKGZheCkgU2hlbGxncm91bmQgZXRjDQoNCg0KDQoJb24gMjcv MDUvMjAwNCAxMTo1NSBhbSwgQ29ubG9uLCBUaW1vdGh5IHdyb3RlOg0KCQ0KCQ0KCT4+IEkgdGhp bmsgeW91IGFyZSByZWFsbHkgbWlzc2luZyBvdXQgaWYgeW91IGxpc3RlbiB0byBzb21ldGhpbmcN Cgk+PiBvbmNlIGFuZCBtYWtlIGEgZGVjaXNpb24gdG8gc2hlbHZlIGl0IGJhc2VkIG9uIG9uZSBw bGF5LiBTbw0KCT4+IG1hbnkgYWxidW1zIHRha2UgcmVwZWF0ZWQgbGlzdGVucyB0byBmdWxseSBh cHByZWNpYXRlLg0KCSANCgk+IFRoYXQgbWF5IHdlbGwgYmUgdHJ1ZS4uLmJ1dCB0aGVyZSBpcyBz byBtdWNoIG11c2ljIG91dCB0aGVyZQ0KCT4gd2FpdGluZyB0byBiZSBoZWFyZCwgb25lIGxpc3Rl biBpcyBlbm91Z2guDQoJDQoJQWx0aG91Z2ggd2UgYXJlIHdhbmRlcmluZyBvZmYtdG9waWMgYWdh aW4gSSBmaW5kIG15c2VsZiBhZ3JlZWluZw0KCXdpdGggU2FudmFyYSdzIGNvbW1lbnQsIGVzcGVj aWFsbHkgYXMgeW91ciBjb3VudGVyLWFyZ3VtZW50IGp1c3QNCglkb2Vzbid0IGhvbGQgd2F0ZXIg aW1vIFRpbS4gQXBwcmVjaWF0ZSB0aGUgcXVhbGl0eSBiZWZvcmUgdGhlDQoJcXVhbnRpdHkgZXZl cnkgdGltZSBpbiBteSBib29rLiBZb3UgaGF2ZSBldmVyeSByaWdodCB0byBleGVyY2lzZQ0KCXRo ZSAnb25lIGxpc3RlbiBvbmx5JyBydWxlIG9mIGNvdXJzZSBidXQsIGluIHRoZSBleWVzIG9mIG1v c3QgaGVyZSwNCglJIHRoaW5rIHlvdSB3aWxsIHVuZGVybWluZSB0aGUgY3JlZGliaWxpdHkgb2Yg eW91ciB2aWV3cyBvbiBtdWNoIG9mDQoJdGhlIEZheCBjYXRhbG9ndWUgaWYgdGhpcyBpcyB0aGUg Y3Vyc29yeSBhcHByb2FjaCB5b3UgdGFrZS4gTGlrZSBJDQoJc2FpZCBiZWZvcmUsIEkgZGlkbid0 IGZ1bGx5IGFwcHJlY2lhdGUgU2hlbGxncm91bmQgdW50aWwgdGhpcmQgdGltZQ0KCWFyb3VuZCBh bmQgSSdtIHN1cmUgbW9zdCBvdGhlcnMgaGF2ZSBzaW1pbGFyIGV4cGVyaWVuY2VzIG9mIGNlcnRh aW4NCglGYXggcmVsZWFzZXMuDQoJDQoJUGF1bA0KCQ0KCQ0KDQo= ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:20:48 +0000 From: "kevin renick" Subject: Re: (fax) The Fax of Life... Hey Paul, I hope you WILL get around to doing an update of your ratings guide on the Fax Galleria. I printed that out, along with a series of key reviews from 2350.org, to help me decide which Fax releases to pursue. I picked up a number of things specifically because you'd rated them so highly, and I'm happy to say I can't recall any of those purchases that I was totally disappointed by. The way I feel about Fax, if there are at least a couple of stellar tracks on a disc, I can forgive a couple of so-so ones. And let's face it, there are indeed a number of "mixed bag" type Fax releases. Naturally, it's always much more satisfying when a release is great all the way through. With most of my personal favorites, I do feel that's the case. To the person who said they only listen to a disc once, I can only say this: at the prices most of us end up paying for Fax releases (at least the older ones), no way am I gonna listen just once and then file it. I'm gonna friggin' listen to that thing as many times as it TAKES to appreciate it so I'm not sorry it's in my collection! :-) "Working" to listen to music does pay off at times, honestly. Some Fax requires more work than others, admittedly! By the way, Paul, beautiful line about "Shades 2." I feel the same way about it. That's a magical disc, and each time I've listened, I can't believe it lasts so long. It's one of the Fax discs I truly feel takes you on a satisfying journey. They really hit a high mark with that one. Kevin From: Paul Milligan <paul.milligan@georgiadesign.com> To: kevin renick <starguy451@hotmail.com> CC: <faxlist@2350.org> Subject: Re: (fax) The Fax of Life... Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:04:55 +0100 Kudos to Kevin for taking the time to write an interesting piece; the list actually seems to be getting back on track ... ie. talking about Fax *music* again! A couple of points I'd pick-up on Kevin: My personal rating guide is technically on Roy's Fax Galleria site but, you can obviously go there via the link on 2350. I've been posting this annually for some years now but, didn't update at the beginning of 2004 because (I am somewhat ashamed to say) I only picked up two or three new releases in 2003 and I probably only re-rated half a dozen older releases ... due to my not playing a lot of Fax stuff last year. Coincidentally, for about the 4th time in eight years I think I'm moving into another 'refresh' period so, by the end of this year, I probably will be in a position to post a respectable update. Need to hear some of the latest ones! Interesting that you don't rate From Within. Possibly this gained almost mythical status in the 90's because it was one of those releases which appealed to Faxheads who'd previously been into 'Berlin School' stuff. Mind you, I'm not aware about that many people slagging off the original Shades of Orion? I think 90% of members would acknowledge this as one of Fax's 10 most legendary releases and rightly so imo. Shades II is also a stormer... the beginning always reminds me of an early morning mist rolling in off the sea. There's a tear in my eye! Bye. Paul _________________________________________________________________ Stop worrying about overloading your inbox - get MSN Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ End of faxlist-digest V2004 #48 ******************************* --- + To post: ; to mail a person: + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to + Online info at: www.faxlabel.com www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org