From: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org (faxlist-digest) To: faxlist-digest@monkey.org Subject: faxlist-digest V2004 #84 Reply-To: faxlist@2350.org Sender: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Errors-To: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Precedence: bulk faxlist-digest Friday, December 3 2004 Volume 2004 : Number 084 Re: (fax) FAX price increase Re: (fax) FAX price increase (fax) price increase & stuff Re: (fax) FAX price increase Re: (fax) FAX price increase Re: (fax) FAX price increase (fax) Insulting the US Re: (fax) Insulting the US Re: (fax) Insulting the US Re: (fax) FAX price increase Re: (fax) Insulting the US Re: (fax) FAX price increase Re: (fax) Insulting the US Re: (fax) Insulting the US Re: (fax) Insulting the US Re: (fax) FAX price increase (fax) Price "hike" (fax) Price "hike" Re: (fax) Insulting the US Re: (fax) FAX price increase Re: (fax) FAX price increase Re: (fax) Insulting the US Re: (fax) Transonic & Time2 Re: (fax) Insulting the US ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 08:17:04 -0600 From: Brian Subject: Re: (fax) FAX price increase It's about time, I say! :) I'm just thankful Pete and his crew are still so dedicated to the label and the music. FAX is something that's kept me interested in electronic music on the whole during the last 6 years or so, in which I personally believe electronic music has really just plain sucked. FAX is inventive, original, thoughtful, emotional, evocative, where other stuff is mindless, disoriented, and downright boring! I'd gladly pay $15 for a FAX CD. Who on here truly wouldn't?? Anyone want to sell me Dreamfish 1 for $15? *grin* Jus' kidding. - -Brian On 12/2/04 4:29 PM, "Dave at FAX Label USA" wrote: > Dear FAX folks, > > In 11 years, FAX has never raised their "suggested retail price" of $13 > for CDs. Now, with poor exchange rates and increasing costs, FAX is > forced to raise prices. The fact is, Namlook and the artists are just > barely making a profit at this point and a price increase will help the > artists and ensure Namlook is able to keep the label going. > > Effective immediately, FAX's suggested retail pricing will be as follows: > > Regular CDs: $15 retail > Double CDs (e.g., Dots): $25 retail > MP3-CDs: $25 retail > > This amounts to a 15% increase for regular CDs, a 4% increase for > doubles, and a 9% increase for MP3-CDs. Given the fact that the price > has remained stable for so long, we feel this is a fair increase. > > We have already changed our catalog to reflect these new retail prices, > but you will no doubt be able to find other vendors who have stock on > hand, and I'd expect that since they've already paid for those CDs, > they'll charge their old price for them. > > Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 16:11:56 +0100 From: Alexander S.Kunz Subject: Re: (fax) FAX price increase Hello Dave at FAX Label USA & everyone else 02-Dez-2004 23:29, you wrote: > Regular CDs: $15 retail Strange world, or am I too stupid to do the math? :-) At the current exchange rates ($1 is something like 1.30 Euros), I pay 11.50 Euro for a Fax CD when I buy if in the US... if I buy them in Germany, I pay 15.40 Euro regular price. Not that I'm complaining, the price is OK (Amazon Germany sells Fax CDs at 18 Euro), but its odd, nevertheless... if Europeans combine their orders to save on the shipping costs they'll make a better deal if they re-import the CDs from the US... hu? - -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then give up. There's no use in being a damned fool about it. -- W. C. Fields ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 15:02:12 +0000 From: Paul Milligan Subject: (fax) price increase & stuff on 03/12/2004 2:17 pm, Brian at brian@lists.frickster.net wrote: > It's about time, I say! :) I'm just thankful Pete and his crew are still > so dedicated to the label and the music. Just intervening on a 'technicality' ... unless you include the occasional collaborators & Sub Label artists (who aren't really affiliated to Fax beyond using it as a method of getting their music distributed) or the re-sellers, then there is no "crew" as such... Fax is PK / PK is Fax, period. Incidentally, I have no issue with the price increase whatsoever and can not imagine any on here have. After all (i) who is going to stop buying for the sake of an extra couple of dollars and (ii) I understand income from Fax enables PK to live reasonably comfortably but, certainly no better than the average (employed) guy on the street, whoever the "average guy' is! For sure, Fax's prodigious output of the past 12 years has not enabled him to snap up mansions, Caribean islands and pink Rolls Royce's. When you think about the number of so-called celebrity 'artists' out there (on the more popular scene) who live well, yet have little more than a modicum of talent (and in some cases not even a modicum) I am sure the irony is not lost on PK. I shall now dismount from soap box. Paul nb. Thinking about how often Namlook releases include elements of guitar work, it's surprising that PK hasn't explored more abstract guitar-onics, in the way that artists such as Short & Pierce have. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:27:55 -0500 From: "jackthetab" Subject: Re: (fax) FAX price increase $15 a disc is still lower than most commercial cd's. not to mention, most of my cd's come from ebay, and i pay a lot more than $15 a disc for most stuff. i remember the days where every cd was $11.99.... oh, those were the days :-) kunst und wahnsinn, jackthetab #####\ _ /##### #( )# | _( )__ | #( )# ##### | /_woof/ | ##### #" "# | ___m/I_ /_____ | #" "# # O # |____#-x.\ /++m\ /.x-#____| # O # #m.m# | /" \ ///###\\\ / "\ | #m.m# #####/ ######/ \###### \##### /_______________________________________\ die Intensität eines Automobilunfalles, ist einfach erstaunlich. http://jackthetab.org - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian" To: Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 9:17 AM Subject: Re: (fax) FAX price increase > It's about time, I say! :) I'm just thankful Pete and his crew are still > so dedicated to the label and the music. FAX is something that's kept me > interested in electronic music on the whole during the last 6 years or so, > in which I personally believe electronic music has really just plain sucked. > FAX is inventive, original, thoughtful, emotional, evocative, where other > stuff is mindless, disoriented, and downright boring! > > I'd gladly pay $15 for a FAX CD. Who on here truly wouldn't?? > > Anyone want to sell me Dreamfish 1 for $15? *grin* Jus' kidding. > > -Brian > > > On 12/2/04 4:29 PM, "Dave at FAX Label USA" wrote: > > > Dear FAX folks, > > > > In 11 years, FAX has never raised their "suggested retail price" of $13 > > for CDs. Now, with poor exchange rates and increasing costs, FAX is > > forced to raise prices. The fact is, Namlook and the artists are just > > barely making a profit at this point and a price increase will help the > > artists and ensure Namlook is able to keep the label going. > > > > Effective immediately, FAX's suggested retail pricing will be as follows: > > > > Regular CDs: $15 retail > > Double CDs (e.g., Dots): $25 retail > > MP3-CDs: $25 retail > > > > This amounts to a 15% increase for regular CDs, a 4% increase for > > doubles, and a 9% increase for MP3-CDs. Given the fact that the price > > has remained stable for so long, we feel this is a fair increase. > > > > We have already changed our catalog to reflect these new retail prices, > > but you will no doubt be able to find other vendors who have stock on > > hand, and I'd expect that since they've already paid for those CDs, > > they'll charge their old price for them. > > > > Dave > > > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:42:16 -0600 (CST) From: Trevor Cordes Subject: Re: (fax) FAX price increase On 3 Dec, Brian wrote: > It's about time, I say! :) I'm just thankful Pete and his crew are still Ya, I have no problem with paying a little more. However, the fringe and marginal fans may be influenced by a slight price increase. Supply & demand... who knows! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 09:45:47 -0600 (CST) From: Trevor Cordes Subject: Re: (fax) FAX price increase On 3 Dec, Alexander S.Kunz wrote: > Not that I'm complaining, the price is OK (Amazon Germany sells Fax CDs at > 18 Euro), but its odd, nevertheless... if Europeans combine their orders to > save on the shipping costs they'll make a better deal if they re-import the > CDs from the US... hu? Maybe it's all those wacky insanely high VAT and hidden taxes the EU has? Remember, the USA has some of the lowest overall taxes in the world. I doubt with import duties and border taxes it would work out cheaper for them to reimport. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 15:33:27 +0000 From: Paul Milligan Subject: (fax) Insulting the US on 03/12/2004 3:27 pm, jackthetab at ambient@nycap.rr.com wrote: > i remember the days where every cd was $11.99.... > oh, those were the days :-) Over here, in little ol' Great Britain we had been paying through the nose for cd's for years... typically 13.99 UK pounds (not dollars!) on the high street until a couple of years back. However, downward pressure on prices brought about by the 'net has forced retailers here to drop prices very dramatically. So now, for example, major retail chains are knocking out chart cd's for 8.99 UK pounds and full price back catalogue for 9.99 ... it's not uncommon to find mid-price back catalogue releases for 6.99 By comparison Fax might even appear expensive but, that would be to ignore a fundamental truth... added value! I have no sympathy for you Yanks incidentally... after all you gave us McDonalds for which the world shall ever be ungrateful. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 09:21:58 -0700 From: Dave at FAX Label USA Subject: Re: (fax) Insulting the US >I have no sympathy for you Yanks incidentally... after all you >gave us McDonalds for which the world shall ever be ungrateful. > > Ah, but as someone who works for a UK company with R&D facilities in the US (and therefore have to deal with a lot of UK vs. US issues), let's be clear: We may have "given" you McDonald's, but you accepted it (and apparently McDonald's is much more profitable in the UK than was originally predicted (http://www.bized.ac.uk/compfact/mcdonalds/mccorp.htm). Whereas Kentucky Fried Chicken have abandoned plans to open in Tibet because they knew it would not be profitable (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3836927.stm). But we do feel bad that you have pay so much for things there, not just CDs! Ok, back to FAX...truth is, for years it was a BARGAIN, and now it's a bargain. $13 is commensurate with a domestic CD (and many domestics are more!), and $15 for an import CD is a good deal, as people have pointed out. Most imports go for much more here in the U.S. We'll have some new releases to talk about in early 2005. Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 11:31:03 -0500 From: Jason Subject: Re: (fax) Insulting the US > I have no sympathy for you Yanks incidentally... after all you > gave us McDonalds for which the world shall ever be ungrateful. No, no, no. Remember, YOU gave us the Spice Girls AND Robbie Williams in exchange for McDonalds, so we're even basically. Jason - -- Infraction Records infractionrecords.com Outnow: Beequeen - Music for the Head Ballet CD (INFX 009) Outsoon: Koda - Movements CD (INFX 008) "Stars of the Lid multi-layered drone for the backdrop of winter" Andrew Liles - New York Doll 2CD (INFX 013) "Two continents, a dozen hidden meanings, the input of a hundred people and a thousand hours compiled tape - beautifully compressed onto two discs." Zimiamvian Night - s/t CD (INFX 007) Cavernous drones recalling Zoviet France and distant scenes created nearing the likes of Mirror. Limited edition of 50 numbered copies. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 10:31:58 -0600 (CST) From: Trevor Cordes Subject: Re: (fax) FAX price increase On 3 Dec, izam studio wrote: > thats alot about trying to appear fair in the face of a public who seems to > be deluded as to the true worth of limited music on cd . You're preaching to the choir here. But talk about the situation with a broader big-picture view and it starts to look different. <*devil's advocate hat on*> Why should FAX be allowed to charge $x while most people think in general music CD's should cost $x/2? We all would answer "because FAX is worth it" or "because they are limited". But to your average Joe who doesn't know the label, they'll just think it's overpriced and go get it on Kazaa. Then PK gets nothing. Or worse (IMO), they'll pass over FAX and go experiment with another label instead. Part of the problem is the price/hassle discrepancy between pirating and buying a CD. Right now with a CD $10-$20 most middle-class people who are into computers and don't have ethical issues about piracy choose to use Kazaa instead of buying a CD. It's free and it's relatively hassle-free. If you figure the hassle to dink around with Kazaa "costs" $5 a CD, then that is what you should be charging for a CD to make it "cheaper" to actually buy it. Or, as many commentators are pointing out, allow people to buy single songs legitimately for much less so they aren't required to buy all the songs they don't like with one they do. Sure there's iTunes, but there's nothing available using lossless and DRM-free technology (yet). Actually, PK should check out mindawn.com, which looks promising. Back to the question of why should FAX be subject to different rules; if you use the argument "because it's worth it", then the pricing of CD's would boil down to what the artist/label thinks it is worth. And what artist/label would look at their own release and say "it's crap, let's charge only $5". Does anyone knowingly put out garbage just to make money? I'm sure they have some sense that their music is "good", if only to them. Some stuck up artist may price his CD at $100. Does that mean it's worth it? As for it being limited, well that's a better argument. If PK (and the artist) needs to make $10k off a release to survive and you only release 1000 copies then he has to charge at least $10 wholesale each. You can't compare that to a mainstream release that will easily sell 10k or 100k copies. Those are the releases that could easily be $5 or less and still make $100k+. That is where the greed comes in. Remember, Michael Jackson stays in $10k per night hotel rooms most nights of the year. Should the public be paying $x per CD to enable Michael to be that insane? But if you think about it, if FAX charges more "because it's limited" or because they're a smaller outfit, in essence you're penalizing your customer for your own inability to sell more copies. I know that sounds harsh, but it could be construed in that way. Let's not forget, music is also subject to the laws of supply and demand, as the RIAA is discovering much to their dismay. At too high a price you have much lower demand. But since the supply is virtually unlimited for music (just press more CD's), the music companies should let the demand naturally move the price lower on the curve. Instead they keep their prices artificially inflated. What am I trying to say here? I'm not sure. I guess it's because I feel like a hypocrite for being a believer in cheaper CD prices yet simultaneously saying that higher FAX prices are OK. Perhaps the answer for PK is to release an unlimited "mainstream" version that is cheap and a limited "collectors" version that is expensive. I guess that's already what he's doing, with the AW reissues. But not all releases are available as AW's. And the AW's aren't really any cheaper than the originals. If CD's move to $5 each (which I feel they should and very well could), then this would be a good way for small outfits like FAX to stay alive: $5 for AW and $15+ for "collectors". PS: I personally use no file sharing software and actually am fervently against it. Being a computer consultant, I see first-hand every day what Kazaa et al. do to "clean" computers after a few months or use. Not to mention that I believe in supporting the good artists out there. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 16:52:17 +0000 From: Paul Milligan Subject: Re: (fax) Insulting the US on 03/12/2004 4:31 pm, Jason at riouxs@aol.com wrote: >> I have no sympathy for you Yanks incidentally... after all you >> gave us McDonalds for which the world shall ever be ungrateful. > > No, no, no. Remember, YOU gave us the Spice Girls AND Robbie Williams > in exchange for McDonalds, so we're even basically. Not necessarily, it is rumoured that some new PW collaborations are already in production, entitled... * Posh does Broadway * Shades of Ginger * Baby Dreamfish * Sporty Community and wait for it... * The Scary Side of the Moog Incidentally, maybe us brits might be prepared for you yanks to offer up mitigation for dropping McDonalds on us but, NEVER for inflicting Ronald McDonald on the world. What sort of sick joke was that!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 18:04:50 +0100 From: Alexander S.Kunz Subject: Re: (fax) FAX price increase Hello Trevor Cordes & everyone else 03-Dez-2004 16:45, you wrote: > Maybe it's all those wacky insanely high VAT and hidden taxes the EU > has? Dunno about hidden taxes, in Germany VAT is 16%, if you import goods its the same amount IIRC. Most taxes are taken from us directly with the paycheck... :-P > Remember, the USA has some of the lowest overall taxes in the world. I wasn't aware of that. > I doubt with import duties and border taxes it would work out cheaper > for them to reimport. Uh. The import duties. Of course. I didn't think about that. - -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) In a way, science must be described as paranoid thinking applied to nature: we are looking for natural conspiracies, for connections among apparently disparate data. -- Carl Sagan ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 18:07:00 +0100 From: Alexander S.Kunz Subject: Re: (fax) Insulting the US Hello Jason & everyone else 03-Dez-2004 17:31, you wrote: >> I have no sympathy for you Yanks incidentally... after all you gave us >> McDonalds for which the world shall ever be ungrateful. > No, no, no. Remember, YOU gave us the Spice Girls AND Robbie Williams in > exchange for McDonalds, so we're even basically. LOL Paul & Jason! - -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Look before you leap, but look before, not behind. -- Peter Ustinov ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 11:07:04 -0600 (CST) From: Trevor Cordes Subject: Re: (fax) Insulting the US On 3 Dec, Paul Milligan wrote: > offer up mitigation for dropping McDonalds on us but, NEVER for > inflicting Ronald McDonald on the world. What sort of sick joke > was that!!!!!!!!!! Forget Ronald. It's that nightmare-inducing purple acid-trip-monster Grimace that you should be worried about. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 12:11:02 -0500 (EST) From: "Stephen Philips" Subject: Re: (fax) Insulting the US Your own country is screwing you as well though, look how many "singles" come out in PART 1 / PART 2 format, forcing you to buy both if you are a completist. And those "singles" in the US each cost as much as a regular CD in the states. So it goes both ways. :-:-:-:-:-:-: Stephen Philips Dark Duck Records http://www.darkduck.net Drone Download Project | http://www.darkduck.net/drone.htm Dissonance Records [guitar::noise::experimental::shoegazer] | http://www.dissonancerecords.net ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 18:24:26 -0000 From: "izam studio" Subject: Re: (fax) FAX price increase yeah i did kind of consider that and did afterwards think . . . . apologies for the morning rant though . . was in relation to people selling 1000 cds and not lables selling 100,000 , they are different worlds . . . - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Cordes" To: "Fax List" Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 4:31 PM Subject: Re: (fax) FAX price increase > On 3 Dec, izam studio wrote: > > thats alot about trying to appear fair in the face of a public who seems to > > be deluded as to the true worth of limited music on cd . > > You're preaching to the choir here. But talk about the situation with a > broader big-picture view and it starts to look different. <*devil's > advocate hat on*> > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 20:30:23 +0100 From: "Martin Jones" Subject: (fax) Price "hike"

To be honest I think €15 is fairly cheap for a Fax disc, never mind $15....for the last year or so I've watched the dollar weaken and have been amazed that it's taken this long for that to be rectified in a price "increase"...can you even call it an increase, that's the real question ;-)

------------------------------ Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 20:31:37 +0100 From: "Martin Jones" Subject: (fax) Price "hike"



To be honest I think €15 is fairly cheap for a Fax disc, never mind $15....for the last year or so I've watched the dollar weaken and have been amazed that it's taken this long for that to be rectified in a price "increase"...can you even call it an increase, that's the real question ;-)

Sorry if this appears twice btw, email probs!
------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 14:50:59 -0500 From: "joey@etherworld.com" Subject: Re: (fax) Insulting the US Actually, FAX CDs got cheaper over the years not more expensive=2E When Charlie was distributing FAX CDS in 1994 he was selling them to recor= d stores for $10=2E00=20 each=2E With normal store markup of 50% they would sell for $14=2E99 retai= l=2E A year or so later FAX=20 raised the price to $11=2E00 for single CDs and that made the retail go up= another dollar to $15=2E99,=20 more in some cases=2E Certain stores even got them through sub distributors so certain second hand distributors like=20 Etherworld (my old company) would mark up FAX CDs by about 20-25% on the $11=2E00 so you'd find=20 them in some record stores for about $20 or $21 each=2E Being able to get them directly from Dave at FAX Label USA for $13 or $14 is a deal! :) - -Joe Original Message: - ----------------- From: Dave at FAX Label USA dave@faxlabelusa=2Ecom Date: Fri, 03 Dec 2004 09:21:58 -0700 To: faxlist@2350=2Eorg Subject: Re: (fax) Insulting the US >I have no sympathy for you Yanks incidentally=2E=2E=2E after all you >gave us McDonalds for which the world shall ever be ungrateful=2E > =20 > Ah, but as someone who works for a UK company with R&D facilities in the=20= US (and therefore have to deal with a lot of UK vs=2E US issues), let's be= =20 clear: We may have "given" you McDonald's, but you accepted it (and=20 apparently McDonald's is much more profitable in the UK than was=20 originally predicted=20 (http://www=2Ebized=2Eac=2Euk/compfact/mcdonalds/mccorp=2Ehtm)=2E Whereas = Kentucky=20 Fried Chicken have abandoned plans to open in Tibet because they knew it=20= would not be profitable (http://news=2Ebbc=2Eco=2Euk/2/hi/south_asia/38369= 27=2Estm)=2E But we do feel bad that you have pay so much for things there, not just CD= s! Ok, back to FAX=2E=2E=2Etruth is, for years it was a BARGAIN, and now it's= a=20 bargain=2E $13 is commensurate with a domestic CD (and many domestics are=20= more!), and $15 for an import CD is a good deal, as people have pointed=20= out=2E Most imports go for much more here in the U=2ES=2E We'll have some new releases to talk about in early 2005=2E Dave - --- + To post: ; to mail a person: + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to + Online info at: www=2Ehyperreal=2Eorg/fax www=2E2350=2Eorg - -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 24 Jan 2004 19:11:07 -0000 From: "izam studio" Subject: Re: (fax) FAX price increase :) . . :) i think computer consultants should be on 5$ an hour also then :) . . . >needs to make $10k off a release to survive and you only release > 1000 copies then he has to charge at least $10 wholesale each. You PS: I personally use no file sharing software and actually am fervently against it. Being a computer consultant, I see first-hand every day what Kazaa et al. do to "clean" computers after a few months or use. Not to mention that I believe in supporting the good artists out there. ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 20:57:12 -0500 From: "jackthetab" Subject: Re: (fax) FAX price increase i still say, $15 is a decent price for any kind of cd. when i see cd's at "mall shops", they are normally $15-$18 each. that is for commercialized crap.... so again, $15 seems reasonable. i will still pay $15 for a fax disc. kunst und wahnsinn, jackthetab #####\ _ /##### #( )# | _( )__ | #( )# ##### | /_woof/ | ##### #" "# | ___m/I_ /_____ | #" "# # O # |____#-x.\ /++m\ /.x-#____| # O # #m.m# | /" \ ///###\\\ / "\ | #m.m# #####/ ######/ \###### \##### /_______________________________________\ die Intensität eines Automobilunfalles, ist einfach erstaunlich. http://jackthetab.org - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Cordes" To: "Fax List" Sent: Friday, December 03, 2004 11:31 AM Subject: Re: (fax) FAX price increase > On 3 Dec, izam studio wrote: > > thats alot about trying to appear fair in the face of a public who seems to > > be deluded as to the true worth of limited music on cd . > > You're preaching to the choir here. But talk about the situation with a > broader big-picture view and it starts to look different. <*devil's > advocate hat on*> > > Why should FAX be allowed to charge $x while most people think in > general music CD's should cost $x/2? We all would answer "because FAX > is worth it" or "because they are limited". But to your average Joe who > doesn't know the label, they'll just think it's overpriced and go get it > on Kazaa. Then PK gets nothing. Or worse (IMO), they'll pass over FAX > and go experiment with another label instead. > > Part of the problem is the price/hassle discrepancy between pirating and > buying a CD. Right now with a CD $10-$20 most middle-class people who > are into computers and don't have ethical issues about piracy choose to > use Kazaa instead of buying a CD. It's free and it's relatively > hassle-free. If you figure the hassle to dink around with Kazaa "costs" > $5 a CD, then that is what you should be charging for a CD to make it > "cheaper" to actually buy it. Or, as many commentators are pointing > out, allow people to buy single songs legitimately for much less so they > aren't required to buy all the songs they don't like with one they do. > Sure there's iTunes, but there's nothing available using lossless and > DRM-free technology (yet). Actually, PK should check out mindawn.com, > which looks promising. > > Back to the question of why should FAX be subject to different rules; if > you use the argument "because it's worth it", then the pricing of CD's > would boil down to what the artist/label thinks it is worth. And what > artist/label would look at their own release and say "it's crap, let's > charge only $5". Does anyone knowingly put out garbage just to make > money? I'm sure they have some sense that their music is "good", if > only to them. Some stuck up artist may price his CD at $100. Does that > mean it's worth it? > > As for it being limited, well that's a better argument. If PK (and the > artist) needs to make $10k off a release to survive and you only release > 1000 copies then he has to charge at least $10 wholesale each. You > can't compare that to a mainstream release that will easily sell 10k or > 100k copies. Those are the releases that could easily be $5 or less and > still make $100k+. That is where the greed comes in. Remember, Michael > Jackson stays in $10k per night hotel rooms most nights of the year. > Should the public be paying $x per CD to enable Michael to be that > insane? But if you think about it, if FAX charges more "because it's > limited" or because they're a smaller outfit, in essence you're > penalizing your customer for your own inability to sell more copies. I > know that sounds harsh, but it could be construed in that way. > > Let's not forget, music is also subject to the laws of supply and > demand, as the RIAA is discovering much to their dismay. At too high a > price you have much lower demand. But since the supply is virtually > unlimited for music (just press more CD's), the music companies should > let the demand naturally move the price lower on the curve. Instead > they keep their prices artificially inflated. > > What am I trying to say here? I'm not sure. I guess it's because I > feel like a hypocrite for being a believer in cheaper CD prices yet > simultaneously saying that higher FAX prices are OK. Perhaps the answer > for PK is to release an unlimited "mainstream" version that is cheap and > a limited "collectors" version that is expensive. I guess that's > already what he's doing, with the AW reissues. But not all releases are > available as AW's. And the AW's aren't really any cheaper than the > originals. If CD's move to $5 each (which I feel they should and very > well could), then this would be a good way for small outfits like FAX to > stay alive: $5 for AW and $15+ for "collectors". > > PS: I personally use no file sharing software and actually am fervently > against it. Being a computer consultant, I see first-hand every day > what Kazaa et al. do to "clean" computers after a few months or use. > Not to mention that I believe in supporting the good artists out there. > > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 20:59:35 -0500 From: "jackthetab" Subject: Re: (fax) Insulting the US Subject: Re: (fax) Transonic & Time2 certainly i have felt the same way about the transonic series. the first one is beautiful melodies and beats. there is a chilled out feeling, even with these beats. i was so excited about the first transonic that i purchased the others. when i listened to them, i was deeply disappointed in them. the same chilled out feeling, and the same melodies and beats just are not there. its a shame. kunst und wahnsinn, jackthetab #####\ _ /##### #( )# | _( )__ | #( )# ##### | /_woof/ | ##### #" "# | ___m/I_ /_____ | #" "# # O # |____#-x.\ /++m\ /.x-#____| # O # #m.m# | /" \ ///###\\\ / "\ | #m.m# #####/ ######/ \###### \##### /_______________________________________\ die Intensität eines Automobilunfalles, ist einfach erstaunlich. http://jackthetab.org - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Trevor Cordes" To: "Fax List" Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 9:55 PM Subject: (fax) Transonic & Time2 > Just a quick note... just finished listening to Time^2 and Transonic 1. > Transonic 1 has really grown on me. It wasn't a favorite at first but now > it's definitely a top-10. I can't find a weak track on the whole thing, > and it all blends so nice with that ever-present Laswell-esque bass. Why > are the subsequent 2 Transonics not as good? I'll have to relisten... > > Time^2 I have a harder time with. The tracks start out sounding like > wonderful old-style Inoue ambient but then these whacked out beats come > on. I hate to say it but it almost sounds like TI laid down some great > ideas and then shipped it to PK who threw some strange Namlook X style > percussion on top and ruined it. It just doesn't gel most of the time. > Or is it just me? > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org > ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2004 18:45:39 -0800 From: Rafael Almeria Subject: Re: (fax) Insulting the US > Ah, but as someone who works for a UK company with R&D facilities in > the US (and therefore have to deal with a lot of UK vs. US issues), > let's be clear: We may have "given" you McDonald's, but you accepted > it (and apparently McDonald's is much more profitable in the UK than > was originally predicted > (http://www.bized.ac.uk/compfact/mcdonalds/mccorp.htm). Whereas > Kentucky Fried Chicken have abandoned plans to open in Tibet because > they knew it would not be profitable > (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3836927.stm). 1. Hey Dave, I thought you were a researcher at a University who did part time selling on the side. You working in the private sector now? 2. I'm an American and I find it kind of horrible that I can go to foreign countries and find McDonald's, Pizza Hut, KFC and Burger King. When I was in Mexico, my cousin suggested Pizza Hut as a place to go and I probably gave a her strange look. - --Rafael ------------------------------ End of faxlist-digest V2004 #84 ******************************* --- + To post: ; to mail a person: + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to + Online info at: www.faxlabel.com www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org