From: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org (faxlist-digest) To: faxlist-digest@monkey.org Subject: faxlist-digest V2005 #10 Reply-To: faxlist@2350.org Sender: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Errors-To: owner-faxlist-digest@2350.org Precedence: bulk faxlist-digest Saturday, February 19 2005 Volume 2005 : Number 010 RE: (fax) new member: me! (fax) Senor Coconut Re: (fax) new member: me! Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! Re: (fax) new member: me! RE: (fax) new member: me! Re: (fax) new member: me! Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! Re: (fax) new member: me! Re: (fax) new member: me! (fax) EAR/Rational Re: (fax) EAR/Rational (fax) out of print + sale items Re: (fax) out of print + sale items Re: (fax) out of print + sale items (fax) remixes? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 11:44:22 +0100 From: "Martin Jones" Subject: RE: (fax) new member: me! Good luck indeed Kyle, here's hoping it trying to collect all you want doesn't drive you to distraction! For my own part, my faves at the moment are Sad World 2 (still in print), Waiting For Snow (hard-to-find), and 4Voice (old, rare)...and millions of others but they'll do for starters... :-) ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 07:35:40 -0600 From: Trevor Cordes Subject: (fax) Senor Coconut OK, so it's not entirely FAX... but... I was listening to a pretty junky comp I had bought for some reason and by chance I was actually paying attention to one track and it started to get my attention (even though I had listened to it at least twice before). It turns out it's a remix done by Senor Coconut (aka Atom Heart). The track is La Cumbia Triste originally by Gonzalo Martinez (who?) and it's on the comp Listen & Dance (dumb title). Anyways, the track starts out slightly annoying with a latin flavor with some chopped up vocal samples but then gets into a pretty nice Coconut latin rhythm with more fractured vocals. Plenty of staccato percussion and samples in the typical whacko post-Germany Atom style (ala Gran Baile). It's actually quite nice! I'm pretty sure I hated this song (or thought nothing of it) on the first listen or two. But now I'm really starting to like it. Just catchy enough that you might be able to convince "normal" people to like it (a bit). The most interesting part (and the reason I feel compelled to mention it here) is that at 4:15 the 10:12 song abruptly changes into an early-RI and mid-90's Atom Heart FAX style ambient electronica piece. It's a totally different song tacked onto that initial latin stuff. Lots of floating (mid-90's) Inoue-esque reverb and synth doodling. It doesn't really head anywhere in particular, but I am left feeling that the concept could have been expanded into a 30 min ambient marathon on FAX at some point. It's like right at the point they cut it off is right when you think it should start heading somewhere. And then for the last 2-3 minutes this insanely low heavy bass sweep comes in. I almost didn't hear it at first on the speakers I was using at the time. I'll have to take this one into the car for a test run! It's music like that that keeps me coming back to FAX, etc, and made filling my 90's FAX collection a must. It's just so mind expanding to listen to in the middle of the night. Just like Organic Cloud, Zenith, Electro Harmonix, Otaku, (parts of) SHADO and Ork 2 (esp track 4!!) -- all the absolute best of FAX (and any other!) ambient. So, if you are into Atom and/or RI and/or FAX Inoue then you might want to check out this hidden gem that I bet no one has ever heard of before! And if anyone wants to recommend to me any other Atom/RI stuff that is of similar caliber, please do. I have almost zero RI releases. I bought the new Flextone and Dots and thought Flextone was mostly garbage (I've given it 3 listens and it still does nothing for me). Dots, however, has some excellent tracks (4 and 7!!) that indicate there may be promise in the RI back catalog. Personally I haven't been terribly impressed with Atom's solo FAX titles. They all seem to be OK, but nothing terribly exciting. And (for a shameless plug that I *swear* was not my intention for writing this mail!) I am interested in selling this comp. $8 US$ with free shipping to Canada/USA (without jewel case!) or $9.50 international. Add $1 for jewel inclusion ($2 intl). The rest of the CD is a mixed bag, with lots of Coconut Kraftwerk covers (always fun) and other eclectic World-ish styles -- a real mixed bag. It's not my cup of tea, but that's just me... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 17:00:08 -0600 From: Kyle Schrock Subject: Re: (fax) new member: me! yes... so far i own: from within 1-3 (the m-nus re-releases) pp . nmlk sultan 1-3 10 years of silence (silence 1-5) the 2350 broadway collection (2350 broadway 1-3) the psychonavigation collection (psychonavigation 1-5) the move d / namlook collection (move d / namlook 1-6) move d / namlook 7: home shopping the jet chamber collection (jet chamber 1-5) the namlook collection part 1 (namlook 1-5) outland 1-4 shades of orion 2 (planning on getting them all) the dark side of the moog 2 (planning on getting them all) and, sadly, i have other releases by a slightly less honest way of acquiring them... and it makes me feel bad... but of course, my collection will happily grow over time and many $$. but i don't mind the $$, because it's all well worth it. i had gotten the From Within series because of richie hawtin, and after a while i started to wonder, "who is this Pete Namlook guy?" and after that, he quickly became my favorite music artist, by far. namlook is the best! - -schrock- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 18:01:09 -0500 From: micah stupak Subject: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! on Tuesday, February 15, 2005, Kyle Schrock wrote... > and, sadly, i have other releases by a slightly less honest way of > acquiring them... > and it makes me feel bad... i kinda thought that way before, too - then i realised hearing more fax makes me want to buy more fax. ;) (besides, some may want to debate it, but if the only way to get a certain album for less than $150 is to download it, then so be it.) - --- micah stupak micah@benthic.cc www.benthic.cc benthic recordings - soundings from unexplored places ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:03:56 -0600 From: Kyle Schrock Subject: Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! On Feb 15, 2005, at 5:01 PM, micah stupak wrote: > i kinda thought that way before, too - then i realised hearing more > fax makes me want to buy more fax. ;) yes, true... anyway, whether i've downloaded them or not, i'm still going to buy as much FAX as i possibly can. it's an addiction. and in the mail i will have The MS-Series and Virtual Vices 4 arriving soon. maybe i'm just saying too much, being boring... oh well. (and micah, i've heard of you from RTSR too... awesome.) - -schrock- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 19:40:29 -0800 From: Joe Rapoza Subject: Re: (fax) new member: me! Actually, this is an interesting topic to me. Some years ago I was speaking to a friend at work about music going out-of-print. My friend, Zack made a good point that if something goes out of print and the record label decides not to repress it then why shouldn't it be available for free? It makes logical sense to me in that the law (copyright) is supposed to protect the artist and/or label from illegal distribution because it cuts into their profits and thus becomes a detriment to their continued existence. However, if a label only produces say 1,000 copies and they let it go out of print, how is making a duplicate copy and giving (or selling) it cutting into their profits. They have voluntarily decided that due to lack of sales or some other reason that it wasn't worth the money to do a re-pressing. This made sense years ago when you had to reproduce records in quantities of 1,000 or more to make it worth the initial investment but with today's technology a label should be able to burn a one-off copy for an individual for basically nothing and make a decent profit from it. It'd be the music world equivalent to print's print-on-demand services. Call it music on demand. Or, for this list, Fax on Demand. :) - -Joe P.S. I also posted this to my Faxblog. Check it out at http://www.etherworld.com/faxblog/ On 2/15/05 3:01 PM, "micah stupak" wrote: > on Tuesday, February 15, 2005, Kyle Schrock wrote... > >> and, sadly, i have other releases by a slightly less honest way of >> acquiring them... >> and it makes me feel bad... > > i kinda thought that way before, too - then i realised hearing more > fax makes me want to buy more fax. ;) > > (besides, some may want to debate it, but if the only way to get a > certain album for less than $150 is to download it, then so be it.) > > --- > micah stupak > micah@benthic.cc > www.benthic.cc > benthic recordings - soundings from unexplored places > > --- > + To post: ; to mail a person: > + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to > + Online info at: www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org > > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 23:38:36 -0500 From: "Stephen Philips" Subject: RE: (fax) new member: me! >Actually, this is an interesting topic to me. Some years ago I was speaking >to a friend at work about music going out-of-print. My friend, Zack made a >good point that if something goes out of print and the record label decides >not to repress it then why shouldn't it be available for free? Because it is up to the label that owns the music to decide what becomes of the recording. Maybe they don't want it to be sold or distributed anymore. Maybe they want it to be a collectors item. Sometimes labels have limited contracts with artists that only allow them to press and sell music for a limited amount of time. There are many other reasons that music goes out of print. Just because it's out of print doesn't mean it should be free, that's rediculous. That being said, Namlook has openly said he didn't mind mp3 trading of out of print discs so who knows. >It makes logical sense to me in that the law (copyright) is supposed to >protect the artist and/or label from illegal distribution because it cuts >into their profits and thus becomes a detriment to their continued >existence. Copyright has more to do with protecting the rights of the owner of the music and ensuring that they can do with it what they want and that nobody steals their music and hard work and so forth. The part about cutting into profits and continued existence and such is NOT copyright. >However, if a label only produces say 1,000 copies and they let it go out of >print, how is making a duplicate copy and giving (or selling) it cutting >into their profits. They have voluntarily decided that due to lack of sales >or some other reason that it wasn't worth the money to do a re-pressing. >This made sense years ago when you had to reproduce records in quantities of >1,000 or more to make it worth the initial investment but with today's >technology a label should be able to burn a one-off copy for an individual >for basically nothing and make a decent profit from it. This is so out of whack I don't know if I should comment on it. The owner has the right to decide if they want to limit it or press unlimited amounts or whatever. Namlook does this via the reissues and the mp3 compilation discs. Again it all comes back to what the label wants to do. And FAX is not a CDR label so they're not going to do this "burn a one-off" thing. And since when did burning a 1 off CDR, printing up the materials, assembling the whole thing and shipping it out cost "basically nothing" as you so state? How many one-offs like this have you pressed up and sold? And if you really can do it for NOTHING as you state, I've got a whole lot of "nothing" business you could help me with ;-) - ------ Stephen Philips Dark Duck Records http://www.darkduck.net Drone Download Project | http://www.darkduck.net/drone.htm Dissonance Records [guitar::noise::experimental::shoegazer] | http://www.dissonancerecords.net ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 15 Feb 2005 23:53:00 -0600 (CST) From: Trevor Cordes Subject: Re: (fax) new member: me! On 15 Feb, Stephen Philips wrote: > >>However, if a label only produces say 1,000 copies and they let it go out of >>print, how is making a duplicate copy and giving (or selling) it cutting >>into their profits. They have voluntarily decided that due to lack of sales >>or some other reason that it wasn't worth the money to do a re-pressing. But if everyone's pirating it then there will never be enough demand to cause the artist/label to reissue it. It's a catch-22. PK is actually pretty good about reissuing stuff that is in high demand. In fact, through Ear-Rational, they've said that they'll reissue *any* release that the public wants as long as they get (I think) 50% of the run pre-sold/pre-ordered. > Again it all comes back to what the label wants to do. And FAX is not a CDR > label so they're not going to do this "burn a one-off" thing. And since when > did burning a 1 off CDR, printing up the materials, assembling the whole thing Yes, I don't think that Joe has an understanding of the costs involved in making a 500-2000 disc print-run. I don't think FAX would be taken as seriously if it was issuing CD-R's with cheesy inkjet paper inserts and stomper CD labels. There's just something about a CD-R that makes it feel like it's not a legitimate product -- certainly not worth near the price as a "real" CD. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:15:17 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! In a message dated 2/15/05 5:04:05 PM Central Standard Time, micah@benthic.cc writes: > i kinda thought that way before, too - then i realised hearing more > fax makes me want to buy more fax. ;) > > (besides, some may want to debate it, but if the only way to get a > certain album for less than $150 is to download it, then so be it.) > yeah...i had to have a friend burn 2350 Broadway 2 & 3 and Time2 since i was basically told that Mr. Namlook has no intention of re-issuing any of these....(and since i hate MP3's) ....i really don't understand the point of giving 2350 Broadway an Ambient World re-issue but not the other two in the series....kind of a tease if you ask me...if you re-issue one you might as well re-issue the rest of the series....and no, i do not care about the fact that they were released in an MP3 compilation.... i wish more pure ambient classics like this would be re-issued instead of the really lame and dated trance ones.... RL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:14:22 -0500 From: Alan Lucas Subject: Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! On Wed, 16 Feb 2005 07:15:29 -0800 (PST), RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/15/05 5:04:05 PM Central Standard Time, micah@benthic.cc > writes: > > yeah...i had to have a friend burn 2350 Broadway 2 & 3 and Time2 since i was > basically told that Mr. Namlook has no intention of re-issuing any of > these....(and since i hate MP3's) ....i really don't understand the point of giving > 2350 Broadway an Ambient World re-issue but not the other two in the > series....kind of a tease if you ask me...if you re-issue one you might as well re-issue > the rest of the series....and no, i do not care about the fact that they were > released in an MP3 compilation.... > i wish more pure ambient classics like this would be re-issued instead of the > really lame and dated trance ones.... > > RL Ummm... So the mp3 compilations are all extremely high quality mp3 files. Perfectly easy to burn regular audio CDs from them with no loss of quality. And you could support Namlook in the process! And get all three 2350s for like $23 or something. Now with Time2, you're outta luck (for now?), but still saying you hate mp3s (and apparently won't have anything whatsoever to do with them) seems kinda silly, considering the fact that Namlook made a very big deal of making sure they were the highest possible quality. Just my thoughts, anyway. Later, Alan ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:24:35 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! In a message dated 2/16/05 10:14:55 AM Central Standard Time, alucas@gmail.com writes: > Ummm... So the mp3 compilations are all extremely high quality mp3 > files. Perfectly easy to burn regular audio CDs from them with no loss > of quality. And you could support Namlook in the process! And get all > three 2350s for like $23 or something. > ummm.....i do not even own a computer (i use the one at work or library)..and my computer at work does not have a cd burner anyway....so even if i wanted MP3s it wouldn't matter....and i really don't even want a cd-r...they are too easily corrupted/scratched....i'd really just like good ol' manufactured cds but i guess that is too much to expect...unless i want to pay incredibly ridiculous GEMM or EBAY prices .....it's just a shame that i was too busy buying/supporting FAX by buying almost everything that came out that i was near broke when it came time to order them when they originally came out....for some dumb reason my local store didn't order them at the time so i missed out....by the time i found out that they missed them and tried to order them elsewhere most other stores were out of stock too... my poor luck i guess... RL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 11:15:36 -0600 (CST) From: Trevor Cordes Subject: Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! On 16 Feb, Alan Lucas wrote: > them) seems kinda silly, considering the fact that Namlook made a very > big deal of making sure they were the highest possible quality. Yes, I must agree that the FAX MP3's are extremely well done. He either uses 320k CBR or VBR which shows that PK is very well informed and quality-conscious. Perhaps RL is thinking of the all-to-common 128kbps and badly-ripped MP3's of P2P-sharing fame. When done properly (ie: by a perfectionist like PK or by yourself with the proper tools), MP3's are as good as the real deal. I consider myself an intermediate audiophile and as soon as I discovered high bitrate VBR (done right), I never looked back. I too had been discouraged early on by the junky 128k that is so common. And, RL, not owning a computer? That would probably set you out as unique amongst faxlist readers I reckon! PS: RL, ebay prices have been pretty depressed lately... you should be able to grab the 3 titles you mentioned for (well?) under $150 each. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 12:23:44 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! In a message dated 2/16/05 11:16:31 AM Central Standard Time, trevor@tecnopolis.ca writes: > And, RL, not owning a computer? That would probably set you out as > unique amongst faxlist readers I reckon! i have resisted the temptation to having one in my home....they take up too much of my time that could be used for other things....like having a life....exercise, being outdoors, communication with other people face to face..having a real-time conversation complete with facial expressions and voice tone changes you know.....old school human being stuff RL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 10:41:46 -0800 (PST) From: John Whitney Subject: Re: Re[2]: (fax) new member: me! - --- RLynn9@aol.com wrote: > i have resisted the temptation to having one in my > home....they take up too > much of my time that could be used for other > things....like having a > life....exercise, being outdoors, communication with > other people face to face. Heh heh... did you see Logan's Run? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074812/ If so, remember when they went outside for the first time? I think they get attacked by some animal and the woman (played by the sexy Jenny Agutter) says something like: "I hate outside!" Is this what's in store for us here in the future? John __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 15:12:42 -0600 From: Kyle Schrock Subject: Re: (fax) new member: me! this seems to be turning into more of an argument about having a computer and the quality of MP3s. On Feb 15, 2005, at 11:53 PM, Trevor Cordes wrote: > PK is actually pretty good about reissuing stuff that is in high > demand. > In fact, through Ear-Rational, they've said that they'll reissue *any* > release that the public wants as long as they get (I think) 50% of the > run pre-sold/pre-ordered. Ear/Rational has been my only source for FAX releases. and trevor, i don't really know what you mean by that, seeing as how i'm just a stupid little high-school kiddie. but i take it that if it's still in the Ear/Rational catalog (even if it's "out of stock") then there must still copies avaliable? even for the original limited releases? i guess, i've only ordered stuff that's actually in stock so far. - -schrock- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 16:20:43 EST From: RLynn9@aol.com Subject: Re: (fax) new member: me! In a message dated 2/16/05 3:13:07 PM Central Standard Time, monkeygra@mac.com writes: > this seems to be turning into more of an argument about having a > computer and the quality of MP3s. > yes...indeed it does....but i won't let other people make me feel like less of a human being because i don't have a computer at home.....if i allowed myself to fall for that kind of stuff, then i'd have my ear glued to the latest "cool" cell phone....or wear the latest "hip" clothes....or i'd be listening to "j-Lo" or the latest "hot" rap group....or basically, i just buy buy buy buy buy into whatever the consumer guilt trip the corporations threw my way......but today, of all days, i won't let anyone pull me into a lame argument.....it's my birthday and as a card-carrying Aquarian i'm going to go enjoy myself (as soon as work is over) ....incidentally, (for all you Coil fans) i share the same birthday as the recently and dearly departed Jhonn Balance.....kinda cool..especially since i have lived two years past my expiration date.. RL ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 14:22:42 -0700 From: Dave at FAX Label USA Subject: (fax) EAR/Rational > PK is actually pretty good about reissuing stuff that is in high demand. > In fact, through Ear-Rational, they've said that they'll reissue *any* > release that the public wants as long as they get (I think) 50% of the > run pre-sold/pre-ordered. Might as well clarify this before the discussion goes further off the rails... What PK said is that if we can get 100 people to commit to an MP3 release, or 250 people to commit to a standard CD release, he'll do it. Pre-selling 50% of the run is not necessary--just enough to cover PK's costs. (FWIW, we did get 100+ people to commit to Season's Greetings, and I do think it's in the works for a future release.) Dave ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 17:41:10 -0600 From: Kyle Schrock Subject: Re: (fax) EAR/Rational On Feb 16, 2005, at 3:22 PM, Dave at FAX Label USA wrote: > (FWIW, we did get 100+ people to commit to Season's Greetings, and I > do think it's in the works for a future release.) nice! thanks for the heads-up, dave! - -schrock- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 12:52:46 -0700 From: "Dave @ Fax USA (EAR/Rational Music)" Subject: (fax) out of print + sale items The following items have gone out of print. There may still be copies floating around the usual sources, but Namlook has no more of them. A Day in the Park (we have 4 copies remaining: http://www.ear-rational.com/detail.php?id=6194) Atom (we have 3 copies remaining: http://www.ear-rational.com/detail.php?id=1429) Recurring Dreams of the Urban Myth (we have 2 copies remaining: http://www.ear-rational.com/detail.php?id=4903) My Fascinating Instrument New Organic Life II And some sale items...please click on links to order. A New Consciousness 2 $16.50 (http://www.ear-rational.com/detail.php?id=6867) Bedroom $16.50 (http://www.ear-rational.com/detail.php?id=6198) Fanger & Siebert $15.53 (http://www.ear-rational.com/detail.php?id=4894) Create $15.53 (http://www.ear-rational.com/detail.php?id=6204) Solitaire $16.50 (http://www.ear-rational.com/detail.php?id=6874) From Within $12.75 (http://www.ear-rational.com/detail.php?id=908) And finally, I got a few copies of Dark Side of the Moog IX back in. They cost us a little more, but they're out of print, so... Dark Side of the Moog IX $17.50 (http://www.ear-rational.com/detail.php?id=17062) Dave ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 15:13:18 -0600 From: Kyle Schrock Subject: Re: (fax) out of print + sale items On Feb 18, 2005, at 1:52 PM, Dave @ Fax USA (EAR/Rational Music) wrote: > And finally, I got a few copies of Dark Side of the Moog IX back in. > They cost us a little more, but they're out of print, so... i really hope TDSotM IX will be re-released on Ambient World soon. some of the AW releases were put out only a year after the original releases, and Dark Side of the Moogs I-VIII are already on AW. plus The Dark Side of the Moog IX is a very strong contender for the "best FAX release" honor. am i right, people? - -schrock- ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 18 Feb 2005 22:28:39 +0100 From: Alexander S.Kunz Subject: Re: (fax) out of print + sale items Hello Kyle Schrock & everyone else 18-Feb-2005 22:13, you wrote: > plus The Dark Side of the Moog IX is a very strong contender for the > "best FAX release" honor. We just had that discussion (I don't know if this list is archived somewhere?)... :-) > am i right, people? That is, as everything regarding music, a matter of taste. - -- Best regards, Alexander (http://www.neurowerx.de - ICQ 238153981) Deliplayer2 is playing: "Phosphoressence" by The Infinity Project from the 1996 album 'Phosphorescent' ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2005 21:28:33 -0600 From: Trevor Cordes Subject: (fax) remixes? I didn't know PK did remix work on the side: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4700620408 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4700621654 ... and for hip-hop? ------------------------------ End of faxlist-digest V2005 #10 ******************************* --- + To post: ; to mail a person: + To unsubscribe: "unsubscribe" to + Online info at: www.faxlabel.com www.hyperreal.org/fax www.2350.org